Saw this shared on Mastodon and it really made me think of National and their Atlas Network aligned astro-turf organisation the Taxpayer’s Onion who campaigned against what they termed the ‘ute tax’.

If the results of this 2004 study hold true 20 years later, and in New Zealand, then knowingly or not, they in effect have campaigned for and enacted legislation that will kill more New Zealanders.

"A 2004 study found that for every life saved by a motorist who switched from a car to a light truck (SUV or pickup), 4.3 other drivers, pedestrians and cyclists were killed. "

That statistic also suggests that the safety fears driving people to SUVs are completely overblown and over-egged.

  • @thevoyagekayaking
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    4 months ago

    I know a few ute owners, I’ve never heard any of them mention safety as a reason for buying one. In the days of ANCAP safety ratings, it’s very easy to know exactly how safe a vehicle is.

    The reasons people typically buy utes and SUVs is as a lifestyle vehicle, something that can carry sporting equipment, camping gear etc, go anywhere they want to go, and tow.

    It’s also worth noting that some of the heaviest vehicles on the road are EVs, the difference in weight between a Leaf and a Ranger isn’t actually much.

    I honestly think you’re barking up the wrong tree here.

    Let’s look at some other weight specs, shall we?

    https://www.drive.com.au/showrooms/ford/ranger/12db7674afb33e6a/ Baseline Ranger, less than 1.8 tonnes

    https://www.dimensions.com/element/tesla-model-s Tesla model s, 2.2 tonnes

    https://www.drivencarguide.co.nz/vehicle-profiles/byd-atto-3/ BYD atto, 1.8 tonnes.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivian_R1S Rivian SUV, 3.5 tonnes, more than the GVM of some utes.

    EVs are far heavier than an equivalent ICE vehicle.

    • @TagMeInSkipIGotThisOP
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      4 months ago

      I buy that with Utes; back in the 2000s and 2010s. But early on when SUVs were becoming vogue it was definitely a perception of safety, particularly for the urban buyers using it for around town, school and sports runs etc.

      Nowadays a twin cab ute has fairly well taken over that spot, particularly for urban drivers but whether perceived safety is as much of a selling point for them I’m willing to concede.

      Sure, a Leaf might weight something similar to a Ranger; but the big difference in danger from a Ranger is its height and particularly driving around town poor visibility for pedestrians.

      And in any case, I’m not barking up much of a tree, read the study - it’s pretty clear that Utes & SUVs in that study were a lot more dangerous. Also note I tied safety fears to SUVs, not Utes.

    • @Venator
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      4 months ago

      A leaf has much better pedestrian crash safety than any ute or SUV…

      • @thevoyagekayaking
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        -54 months ago

        OK, so what about vans? Most cab forward van designs are just a wall, and even vehicles like the Transit would be worse than most SUVs. Why aren’t we griping about those?

    • @purrtastic
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      54 months ago

      The massive front blind spots of these large cars are a major factor in increased pedestrian deaths.

      • @thevoyagekayaking
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        -74 months ago

        I drive an SUV, a mazda CX-5. Because you sit so high in the vehicle, the forward visibility is very good, better even than some cars I’ve driven.

        The blind spot argument is pretty weak, in my view.

        • @purrtastic
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          4 months ago

          Pretty weak? There are many studies showing bigger cars are killing more pedestrians, particularly because of the front blind spot.

          • @absGeekNZ
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            64 months ago

            I drive a Ute and without the front camera, the blindspot would be terrible.

          • @thevoyagekayaking
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            -14 months ago

            Half those vehicles don’t even exist on NZ roads, the only one I’ve seen in person is the 150, and they’re rare as hen’s teeth.

            Out utes are much smaller.

    • @TagMeInSkipIGotThisOP
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      34 months ago

      Look I don’t want to be a dick, but single cab utes aren’t the big sellers that double-cab utes are (which tend to be heavier), and also when a ute is sold as chassis, I think it means it doesn’t have a deck (flat or well-side). So yeah, that particular model is lighter sure, but its not really representative.

        • @TagMeInSkipIGotThisOP
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          4 months ago

          OK fair enough I did say that, but I was clear it was based on a quick google only and to be fair it was about 2023 Rangers, and you’ve pasted spec sheets about 2019 Rangers. So I don’t think either of us are getting everything perfectly right.

          Meanwhile, this side discussion about whether a Ranger is heavier than a Leaf kinda ignores the finding of the study that prompted this whole discussion.

          Namely, every driver saved by switching to an SUV or Pickup was balanced by 4.3 other people dying. And the main reason quoted for that ‘While bigger cars typically are safer for their occupants, they pose a greater hazard to anyone or anything smaller they may collide with, a phenomenon known as “crash incompatibility.”’

          If you take pedestrians and cyclists out of the statistics, we are still left with: “28%: Percent by which a collision with an SUV is more likely to kill a car’s occupants than one with another passenger car.”

          • @thevoyagekayaking
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            -24 months ago

            First, stop quoting an article written in the USA, they have a very different road fleet to what we have, and their vehicles are massive.

            Second, I proved you wrong in about three minutes while on the can, so you can’t have looked very hard.

            • @[email protected]
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              13 months ago

              Let’s try to bring this back onto productive territory - clearly our vehicle fleet is escalating in size as we emulate the Americans.

              Sure, we’ve got a way to go but there’s still way to many dodge ram atrocities or great wall shockers rolling around.

              • @thevoyagekayaking
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                13 months ago

                clearly our vehicle fleet is escalating in size

                Is it though? Do you have any studies that were actually done on our fleet?

                • @[email protected]
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                  13 months ago

                  Hell, yes. SUVs have gotten hugely bigger in recent years, surely that’s painfully evident to anyone with eyes?

                  I’ve got no studies for you, but I’ve seen what our builders keep upgrading to for their company vehicles

                  Some of the smart ones use vans but most of the others go for the biggest, most obnoxious thing they can find

      • @thevoyagekayaking
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        22 months ago

        You’re replying to a month old comment, the argument is well and truly over.

        You seriously need to get a life.

        • @Venator
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          02 months ago

          It’s a good video, you should watch it. 😂