As an electrical engineer I will say there are giant thick sections of code for backup power regarding life safety systems. Generally a backup generator will keep running even if on fire and breaking just to keep power on… backup batteries on even more sensitive equipment provides even more redundancy. Power failure leading to a disaster is a engineering failure.
Why would a collision detection system not detect a collision? Asking as I know little about such systems. To me a system would include GPS and bridge heights and ship height with radar to alert of tight spots. A bridge could have a sensor from lowest point to measure water height and hence clearance ND broadcast to all ships who must acknowledge before crossing. Why am I a moron on the internet a step ahead of billion dollar operations?
Not sure of the specific circumstances, but a ship in the water, even with all motors off, doesn’t sit still unless you drop the anchor, and even then it can swing on the chain. It would drift with the current, and it would have momentum from wherever it was headed before the power cut out. Unlike a car with brakes. Even if they had power and slammed the engine into reverse, it’s not instantaneous. There’s just too much mass and not enough friction.
Ahhh. I wasn’t seeing the full incident. Lost main power they radioed a warning. Backup generation isn’t designed to fully stop a huge boat. Life safety systems on board should be operational but it’s the problem here is stopping a giant heavy boat…
Backup generation runs the systems on the boat, not the propulsion. They may have had bow thrusters, but without the main engine, there’s very little they could have done.
Lost power as in no longer able to control its direction and speed.
Even if backup power is still feeding your detection system, all it can do is tell you what you can already see in front of you: your gonna hit that bridge. Still nothing you can do about it.
At the same time, apparently the distress call went out moments before. A ship that size is not going to be able to turn in time, and a ship that weight is going to impart a hell of a lot of force even if moving slowly.
Someone very well may have fucked up, I would say the chances are pretty high, but I feel like that happened well before the power went out
Dude. Backup power. Backup generator in a fire rated room. You didn’t understand my previous rant. Batteries and UPS and generators. If your main power fails you have Backup generation sometimes even redundant Backup generators with interlocks and load shedding to keep life safety online. But it is a moot pointthe issue here is we don’t have a good way to stop a huge boat with no power. This is more an industry blindspot than anything I see now.
These ships aren’t running a little electric prop that you can just route power to: it’s a massive diesel engine that needs to be capable of outputting thousands of pounds of torque constantly. It’s also a ship, in water, dealing with tides, currents and wind. There is no turning it or altering course without main engine power to move the ship relative to the water to make the rudder effective. Some large ships have steering screws that they can use to slip the ship sideways, but they are meant for minor corrections and maneuvers in calm water and have limited uses.
Apparently, the Dali lost all power. Anti collision kind of needs power to work, so having it would not matter regardless
As an electrical engineer I will say there are giant thick sections of code for backup power regarding life safety systems. Generally a backup generator will keep running even if on fire and breaking just to keep power on… backup batteries on even more sensitive equipment provides even more redundancy. Power failure leading to a disaster is a engineering failure.
Yeah, still an utterly disastrous fuck up. Just wanted to point out that collision systems wouldn’t matter in this case
Why would a collision detection system not detect a collision? Asking as I know little about such systems. To me a system would include GPS and bridge heights and ship height with radar to alert of tight spots. A bridge could have a sensor from lowest point to measure water height and hence clearance ND broadcast to all ships who must acknowledge before crossing. Why am I a moron on the internet a step ahead of billion dollar operations?
Not sure of the specific circumstances, but a ship in the water, even with all motors off, doesn’t sit still unless you drop the anchor, and even then it can swing on the chain. It would drift with the current, and it would have momentum from wherever it was headed before the power cut out. Unlike a car with brakes. Even if they had power and slammed the engine into reverse, it’s not instantaneous. There’s just too much mass and not enough friction.
Yea. Didn’t realize how hard it is to stop a giant boat. As a electrical engineer we stay away from water and my ignorance shows!
If it has no power, then it can’t detect anything. It’s like a driver falling asleep
Yes, it shouldn’t happen and something clearly went horribly wrong, but well, the one asleep at the wheel isn’t going to be detecting things
Ahhh. I wasn’t seeing the full incident. Lost main power they radioed a warning. Backup generation isn’t designed to fully stop a huge boat. Life safety systems on board should be operational but it’s the problem here is stopping a giant heavy boat…
Backup generation runs the systems on the boat, not the propulsion. They may have had bow thrusters, but without the main engine, there’s very little they could have done.
Lost power as in no longer able to control its direction and speed.
Even if backup power is still feeding your detection system, all it can do is tell you what you can already see in front of you: your gonna hit that bridge. Still nothing you can do about it.
Maybe they were inspired by Boeing to skip the QA checkups on some of those systems 😉
Yep. “Business” doesn’t see profit in redundant systems.
At the same time, apparently the distress call went out moments before. A ship that size is not going to be able to turn in time, and a ship that weight is going to impart a hell of a lot of force even if moving slowly.
Someone very well may have fucked up, I would say the chances are pretty high, but I feel like that happened well before the power went out
Power includes engine power.
Dude. Backup power. Backup generator in a fire rated room. You didn’t understand my previous rant. Batteries and UPS and generators. If your main power fails you have Backup generation sometimes even redundant Backup generators with interlocks and load shedding to keep life safety online. But it is a moot pointthe issue here is we don’t have a good way to stop a huge boat with no power. This is more an industry blindspot than anything I see now.
These ships aren’t running a little electric prop that you can just route power to: it’s a massive diesel engine that needs to be capable of outputting thousands of pounds of torque constantly. It’s also a ship, in water, dealing with tides, currents and wind. There is no turning it or altering course without main engine power to move the ship relative to the water to make the rudder effective. Some large ships have steering screws that they can use to slip the ship sideways, but they are meant for minor corrections and maneuvers in calm water and have limited uses.
Do you really need main engine power to turn the rudder?
My first thought was similar, there’s clearly a lack of redundency in a space that should have had more consideing an entire bridge just came down.