They are either Russian trolls or children who have a Disney level perspective on politics, I think. They don’t want to recognize that they have very limited options or the harsh realities surrounding them.
Is it not more like “ALL OF YOU WILL DIE” ?
I mean, Israel seems determined on their genocide…
Let me take a stab at this. As a non American non voter who is interested in the outcome of the election.
There are 3 parties to this discussion: the Harris campaign (Democrats in general), the Gaza issue voter, and the lesser evil voters.
The Gaza issue voters clearly believe a genocide is occuring, sometimes affecting them personally, and funded by their tax dollars. They would like some concessions from the Dems (the only likely party to take any action) and their only bargaining chip is their vote. It is clear to me that, if a large number of Americans felt strongly and this way, action would happen.
The Harris campaign has been non responsive on this issue, trying to tread the thin line, where they not only look powerless politically, but also unwilling to take a moral stand for what is right.
The lesser evil voters are absolutely correct that she is still better than Trump, and in more ways than just Middle east.
What I think all 3 parties need to do:
The lesser evil camp, instead of mocking the hold outs, needs to pressure the Harris campaign to make a change. Maybe even join them! (See the last point)
The Harris campaign, needs to think long and hard about what they stand for, and the implications of the Republican-lite gamble paying off. There needs to be some fear of losing voters who they cannot take for granted as they shift to the right.
Finally the Gaza voters. Its fine to play the game of chicken, keep screaming as loud as you can demanding change, but ultimately (secretly) get to the ballot and vote D.
but ultimately (secretly) get to the ballot and vote D.
By this point, it’s too late. Probably already too late now.
You dumb fucks never realized that your true power is NOT your votes. It’s your voice. It’s the power to convince people to stay home. And you just… kept doing that. There’s no threat to be made; the act of making the threat IS the damage.
I’m so tired dude. At least in a month most of you will forget all about Gaza and I won’t have to hear about it anymore.
the lesser evil camp refuses to pressure the harris campaign and the harris campaign refuses to self reflect on their republican lite gamble; but the gaza voters should give up their only bargaining chip and vote for them anyways?
I doubt the Democrats will learn their lesson when they lose. They didn’t became more progressive when Hillary lost when the Bernie voters stayed home. The only shift to the left in the party that happened was when incumbent democrats got replaced by outsiders like AOC. So if you want to punish Democrats do it during a primary and vote an incumbent out.
Yes. That’s how the two party system works. Dems are still miles better than Republicans on the issue, and thus don’t need to improve. It sucks, but that’s the hand that’s been dealt I don’t see any better strategy to help the people of Gaza. If you see one, feel free to share.
A large portion of the people you’re referring to are Arab Americans. In fact, Trump is now leading with them. I also think Trump would be worse for Palestinians than Harris, but I doubt the best way to convince Arab Americans of that is with condescending memes about how they don’t care about the Middle East.
So pandering to idiots is bad when democrats veer to the center to get centrist votes, but it’s good when Harris takes a stand on Gaza?
Hot take: morons are morons. Left and right. Fuck em.
The point of the meme isn’t to convince anyone, the point is to yell at people you hate and tell yourself you’re so much better than them. Any claim of “activism” and “raising awareness” is transparently false.
Everyone else is a villain huh? I’m petty sure the author thinks their view should be self-evident and doesn’t understand why do many people here seem to take actions the author would never consider.
I therefore think the point of the meme is to bring some levity into what would otherwise be helpless frustration.
Have some empathy. Don’t think everyone is bitter and miserable.
You get what you deserve. I’m done with all of this.
It really depends on which state you live in whether or not you have the luxury of a protest vote. If you live in NY state that has a 20% lead for Harris, sure, some people can vote Jill Stein or something. But if you live in a state that actually might be close or not an obvious blowout, you can’t vote that way. You actually have to be tactical with your vote, not idealistic or symbolic.
How about actually listen to Palestinian voices instead of your misplaced savior rubbish? They are the ones asking that we refuse to vote for Kamala.
Absolutely. The goal here should be: make it easier for her opponent, the man who, in a not-at-all inflammatory gesture, moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Clearly aligned with the Palestinian cause. Your strategic thinking is subtle yet effective, the long game is stupid, right?
Sure, more Palestinians will die
Sure, Ukrainians will die
Sure, US minorities will die
Sure, the entire world will suffer from a fascist demagogue at the head of the most powerful country in the world
But have you considered that, for a few brief moments of time,
we created a lot of value for the shareholderswe got to feel smug over the SHITLIBS who wanted to prevent fascism?It’s honestly such a shockingly privileged position it almost defies belief that anyone could actually be so dense unless they are operating in bad faith. Yes, there are several serious problems in the world, and absolutely none of them are solved by helping the US slip into fascism. Leftists in particular are supposed to hate fascists, so I can’t imagine how anyone with leftist sympathies could possibly want to see what the world looks like with an unrestrained Trunp at the helm. Again, unless they are so privileged they don’t think the consequences would affect them personally, in which case I would call any other profession of external empathy which they might bleet ad nauseum, as questionably sincere.
it almost defies belief that anyone could actually be so dense
There is no end to the depths of human stupidity.
They don’t think the consequences will touch them. They’re the leftist equivalent of “shitlibs”
Ahh, but you see, you disagreed with Stalin that one time, and therefore you were the fascist all along
As I believe in the abolition of capitalism and the creation of a popular base of support for such a measure, instead of a narrow oligarchy oppressing the proletariat and enforcing its will on society, I am a shitlib. It’s a terrible burden to bear. 😔
Correct, my harm reduction framework is much more violent than your harm reduction framework, and is therefore more interesting, which makes you wrong.
Communism sucks! We should have a classless, moneyless, stateless society where goods are distributed from each according to ability to each according to need instead! And according to Hexbear users, such a model is called liberal capitalism.
And hardly takes that. All you have to do is have a subtle difference of opinion, and BAM! You’re a fascist.
My favorite, however, is that when you point out that their arguments are 100% logical fallacies, you get banned from multiple communities at once.
Did you know if you support Harris, you’re also a transphobe?
Just admit it!
Something something chronically online lmfao touch grass bougie.
But what else am I gonna do with my feelings of impotent rage? Try to actually change something?
This was a great comment until you implied only conservatives are deciding not to vote for Harris due to our support of Israel.
I was making fun of that short-sighted self-serving nature by making a comparison to capitalist conservatives, not asserting that champagne socialists are, themselves, capitalist conservatives (though, functionally, their actions serve the same goals).
Short-sighted self-serving is what happens when people promote a lesser evil out for fear of a greater one.
They are not willing to risk their lives in the pursuit of an end to our complicity in genocide. More concerned with their current sense of safety in the heart of the Empire than the violence employed to maintain it. Prefferring the surety of another four years where they don’t have to think about politics over the chance for fundamental changes in how our political system functions when a large majority of the country aligns against a second Trump administration.
But hey, at least we can all look forward to doing this again when Trump runs in 2028, right? Democrats surely won’t triangulate even further to the right in pursuit of the mythical moderate Republican voter, right?
Prefferring the surety of another four years where they don’t have to think about politics over the chance for fundamental changes in how our political system functions when a large majority of the country aligns against a second Trump administration.
God, accelerationism is so fucking dumb.
If we just let the fascists win then we’ll be able to usher in a socialist paradise! What’s unclear about that to you? Read a book! /s
A literal pandemic killed millions of Americans and the status quo between the Democrats and the Ivermectin party barely even twitched.
If you think there is a realistic electoral path out of our bipartisan death spiral, I would love to hear it. I’m just cynical enough not to be surprised that neither complicity in genocide abroad or the mass murders of schoolchildren at home will convince the Democrats to start treating Republicans like a threat.
What exactly does “treating Republicans like a threat” look like to you?
The way out of a death spiral is not directly into oblivion. It fucking sucks that genocide is in the category of really important things that need addressing but it is not in the category of things that can be addressed in this particular election.
The electoral path is not at the ballot box every four years at the presidential level. It’s down the ballot and on the other the years. It’s building political capital for the cause you believe in by showing usefulness to the people seeking or holding power and talking to them about the issues you care about. Volunteer for your local house candidate and talk to people in their campaign about how important it is to you that they don’t support genocide, urge them to vote against arms shipments and denounce settlements. Tell your representative how you want them to vote and get other people to do the same.
Working to get people elected gets them to listen to you, that’s why there’s so much money involved in elections.
You’re a fucking idiot.
I hate and love how this is pretty much exactly accelerationism explained without the childlike naiveté.
As opposed to what, doing the same thing every election in the hopes that it will somehow turn out differently this time?
Every time the Dems look left they lose. They go to the center because they lose control (they need all 3 houses to do anything), so they go to the center to find voters. They’ve had control of all 3 houses for, drumroll please, 4 of the last 24 years. Want them to stop going to the center? Them give them victories.
I wish more people could understand this. Or even made an effort to.
As opposed to trying to make things better and avoid more suffering for everyone.
Accelerationists have never lived through what they claim to want because if they did, and lived, they would no longer be accelerationists.
Accelerationists won’t have to live with the consequences because they don’t originate in the US.
Doing the same thing you’ve always done isn’t “trying to make things better”, it’s “trying to make things stay the same”.
If you want to avoid suffering, you have to be against genocide.
Check your privilege
You’re kidding, right?
If you weren’t paying attention, I’m a transgender furry. I’ve been personally targeted by Nazis long before Trump declared people like me to be enemies of America.
Do you think I am not painfully aware of what is at stake here?
I mean, that or all the angry young/middle age voters could, gasp show up to the primaries and move the party to the direction they’d like to see. Instead, the elderly voters, despite being a much smaller share of the population, outvote the heck out of them.
If folks like you paid attention to politics when it matters, not just when it was trendy, things would be a lot different.
Then again, reading what you’ve written, maybe it’s for the best y’all don’t.
I love the idealism, I lost mine decades ago.
Realistically, this is America we’re talking about. A literal pandemic that killed millions was only worth a 16% bump in the total vote count. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that this country is not and has never been a real democracy, the sooner you’ll be able to stop relying on the electoral system to save the world.
Also, I resent the assertion that I don’t pay attention to politics. I pay too much attention to politics. To the point that I predicted this exact scenario for the 2024 election back in 2015 when the DNC first started openly conspiring against Bernie, months before they ratfucked him out of the primary. I was the only person among my family and friends not to be surprised when Hillary lost in 2016. I knew the incumbent for 2024 would have to drop out to give the VP a chance at winning against Trump literally years before we learned that Biden was going to be that incumbent. I feel like Cassandra, cursed with foreknowledge that none will heed.
Anyways, the problem isn’t “trends” or a lack of interest from the youth, the fundamental issue is that electoral politics is a trap. Do vote in local and national elections, of course, but if voting is all you’re putting your energy into then you’re doing it wrong. And our political media ecosystem is designed to ensure that most people do it wrong by investing literal billions into election campaign coverage.
The real forefront of American politics is the union movement. Now that they’re starting to throw off their old business-friendly management and implementing democratic processes for replacing them, they’re taking position to become the driving force behind the new left. Watch for that over the next few years as the Republican party falls apart from the blowback against Trump’s attempts to steal the election while the Democrats continue triangulating to the right to pick up the “moderate” leftovers and alienating their own left wing.
It’s almost like the current and immediate conflict between Israel and Palestinians isn’t the singular thing that the world should have serious concern about, and that realistic solutions to longstanding international diplomacy issues are - wait for it - hard.
But hard things are hard and involve complexity and nuance! I’d much rather call people racist, spout a simplistic solution and call it a day.
You forgot to smugly pat yourself on the back!
Nuh uh!
Ongoing genocide is at the top of my “what I’m concerned about” list. If it isn’t for you, maybe you should reflect on that a little
Some people think an administration and a party that out right lies about a genocide happening care about them. If someone in a position of power, not only ignore but also support clear evidence of genocide and keep repeating statement that means nothing, they are either agent for a foreign country “AIPAC” or they are in it for themselves and have zero care for poor people.
Don’t forget CUFI, it’s actually bigger and more powerful than AIPAC but doesn’t get as much attention. Christian Zionists are insane psychopaths hell bent on destroying the world (literally)
- North Korea
- Myanmar
- Bangladesh and India
- China
- Hamas and Israel
- Ethiopia
- Democratic Republic of Congo
Or is it only what Israel is doing, and only your concern because you can use it as propaganda to tweak the 2024 presidential election in the US?
Who is North Korea even meant to be genociding?
I’m gonna venture a guess that the US could more easily stop Israel’s genocide than any of the others on the list. Like your source’s recommendation for how to address whatever’s allegedly happening in North Korea is to go in and overthrow the government, like we did in Iraq. Seems just a little bit harder than making arms shipments conditional.
Their own citizens, I’d assume
I’d ask whether there’s even a shred of evidence that North Koreans are genociding themselves, but I’m not sure if this is another one of those situations where examining evidence is a bannable offense.
The one that is made possible by my tax dollars
So definitely China, then, because it’s super impossible for you to avoid products made there and exported to the US.
And fuck those people being genocided where your tax dollars aren’t going, amirite?
And fuck those people being genocided where your tax dollars aren’t going, amirite?
Isn’t that what you’re saying? Except for all of them including Palestinians?
Getting back to the point, why aren’t you raging about Chinese genocide?
Ongoing genocide is at the top of my “what I’m concerned about” list.
I’ll ask again: Which one(s)?
The one my government is aiding and defending regularly
Ongoing genocide isn’t at the top of drag’s priority list. The top of drag’s list is the imminent omnicide due to climate change. Drag thinks omnicide is a bigger deal than genocide.
I got into this argument the other day. People’s arrogance and lack of common sense was disappointing.
Yeah tell ne qbout it thinking not voting for either one somehow helps trump 😂 same people that failed basic arithmetic clearly. What they really msan to say is that people voting third party are not helping harris…and yeah thats the point and entirely not the same thing.
49k votes for Stein in Pennsylvania, Trump won by 47k
32k votes for Stein in Wisconsin, Trump won by 22k
51k votes for Stein in Michigan, Trump won by 10k.
Third party voters are useful idiots.
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I am not reading that.
Sorry i shouldn’t have made it so advanced. Ill try to come up with a simpler example in the future!
But maybe sit out of the political bitch fest if you can’t handle how basic arithmetic works eh?
If harris or the dnc want votes, then promote and deliver on policies that people want. If you cant well thats a them problem.
Copy pasting the same smug wall of text every time is not the political own you think it is. In fact, it makes people not want to read it.
Maybe you should get off of the internet and enjoy the nature outside. It’s good for people, y’know?
Try taking your own advice. A bit of time away from a screen should help with these feeling that everyone who fails to vote for Harris is a Trump suppprter.
shrug maybe people should get a clue on what third party votes mean and stop posting the same tired, wrong, and pointless ‘theyre helping Y’ nonsense and ill stop treating them all like children.
If by “third party” you mean Jill Stein, well…
😂 those in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. Funny that harris has one supporting her too.
Did you even read this article? This is what Liz Cheney actually said:
“Reactionaries make statements. Conscientious and thoughtful people take action because they know moral statements will never change the world.”
If you’re interpreting that statement as indicating support for Apartheid, then you clearly have problems with reading comprehension.
In any case, there’s a big difference between Liz Cheney’s bad opinion in 1987, and the guy who founded the “Knights of the Ku Klux Klan” in Louisiana. There’s quite a gap in scale there.
Your “stone” seems to be more of a bouncy ball.
Dick Cheney is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Incredible that liberals will defend the Cheneys, not sure if it’s that you don’t care about people’s lives if they happened to be born in another country, or if you’re just willing to defend anyone and anything if you think it’ll help you win.
How did Stein’s response to David Duke’s endorsement compare to Harris’ response to Cheney’s? Did she accept the endorsement?
Is this a bot account or something? Every post has obvious typing mistakes and they all say utter bullshit. When shortly scrolling through their comments I didn’t see a single upvote.
Every comment is on the usa election. Account created 2 weeka ago.
That’s good enough for me. Blocked.
Stop blocking these people! It just amplifies their voices!
and yes, everyone comment is on the election because thats all I particularly care about atm ;) please support rank choice in your state so this nonsense can stop. I’m tired of watching my country kill people for no good fucking reason. I’m tired of watching people shit on 3rd party voters for having a moral conscience that is clearly superior to the majority of liberals.
I am sorry every argument against 3rd party voters is so easily torn apart by simple addition demonstrating that its harmless. if more people had a spine maybe harris wouldn’t be supporting a genocide. but then again maybe she would. either way hard pass.
beep boop.
Oh the irony here.
If there are only two viable options, not helping one is the same as helping the other.
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If there’s a toddler about to walk into traffic and you choose to keep swiping on tinder or whatever instead of helping the kid, that kid’s death is still on you.
Samw thing with not stopping trump.
It’s really not complicated.
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Hey kiddo, instead of deflecting to Palestine, how about you explain how either this voting instance is different than the analogy I’ve given or admit that you’d be fine letting the kid die because of whatever.
If you’re going to be incorrectly smug about voting third party, try answering a reasonable question about it.
What’s trumps excuse? What’s your excuse? What’s God’s excuse?
I’m tired of all this. I take full responsibility. If I had done more this tragedy could have been averted. I’m sorry to those who have suffered because of my inadequacy. Render what ever judgment you will on me and in the future, if there is one for scum like me, I will try to do better.
What’s trumps excuse?
who cares? he never had a chance at my vote to begin with for a large number of reasons. we can just add it to the pile of shitty things trump is okay doing. but we already knew he was willing to commit genocide. this is a surprise to no one who as paid attention.
What’s God’s excuse?
dunno if i could find him i’d ask him.
What’s your excuse?
for what? not supporting harris? I’ve been very clear on this: genocide.
I’m tired of all this.
so am I friend, so am I. I’m not the one running around trying to convince people to vote for a particular candidate by shaming others using intellectually dishonest claims of ‘helping trump’, ‘both parties were going genocide, pick the lesser evil’, etc.
I want people to get off their ass and vote. I didnt vote for harris or trump, I voted down ballot. I’m also not in a swing state or a state with shitty womens rights. harris is going to win my state regardless. That being said the liberals running around spouting nonsense about helping trump when its clearly and demonstrably not true is going to lead to people not voting at all.
And that my friend is why I call this shit out. because they might have voted down ticket regardless which can only help the situation. and quite frankly im happy to treat people with the same level of vitriol that they treat others. Now I will continue campaigning against genocide and getting ranked choice done, please volunteer so people can stop being asses to each other.
Gotta love people trying to use maþ to defend someþing ð actual maþ clearly says is ð complete fucking opposite of helpful.
If you þink ð solution to democratic softness on Israeli atrocities is to let Trump back into power after he handed ðem East Jerusalem, West Bank, and Golan Heights on a silver platter, you are eiðer a covert zionist agent or an unwitting zionist agent.
Eiðer way, my Amrikani-Falasteeni derriere will consider you as much of an ally as truck flags McGee barely holding back from calling me a towel head and sand n****r mostly because we some ð fuck how have been blessed to avoid peak emboldenment, despite your best efforts trying to “make ð establishment learn ðeir lesson.”
You can tell ðese kids are white because ðey actually believe pulling a karen on ð two party system will get ðem a sit down meeting with democracy’s manager for a socialism coupon or some shit.
ð
This has gotta be the Zoomer version of “holds up spork”
You went through all the trouble of using eth everywhere, but you left out the accent in derrière?
democrats : This is the most important election in our lifetime, we need you to vote to save democracy.
Third party voters : Yeah and under a Democracy I intend To freely use my vote according to my beliefs and interests.
democrats: Nooooooy, not like that 🤬
America doesn’t actually have a democracy. You only get a remotely democratic choice between D and R. And even that choice is severely compromised. If you think you have the democratic choice to vote third party, then you’ve been brainwashed by pro-america propaganda
Join the movement for ranked choice voting so we can end the duopoly!
Missourians who see this, vote NO on 7 to stop the ban!
America is an oligarchy.
Russians: first we try to spread chaos by pretending to be 3rd party American voters unhappy with Israel.
Americans: dude that plan is absolutely retarded and there’s no way it would ever work.
Russians: but we paid for the best 3rd party candidate rubles could buy!
Jill Stein:
Americans:
https://lemmy.ml/post/21672888
3rd party voting hurts trump more than kamala.
3rd party voting is a good thing
😅😆🤣😂😄🤣🫠
You’re actually serious with that borsht Gregor?
I think someone has been drinking too much vodka.
Y’all tried with Kennedy and the brain rot got him from fucking that bear 🐻 or whatever. Now it’s Stein which is so absolutely absurd of a candidate to put up against anyone.
Jill Stein is so bland she couldn’t win against a cardboard cutout of herself. She has zero appeal, zero prowess, zero accolades, zero achievements.
If that’s the best Russian intelligence can do, the Putin régimes’ days are numbered.
🤣🤣
3rd party voting hurts trump more than kamala.
And if the third party leftist voters voted for Harris and voted in Democratic primaries, we might not be in this mess.
Democrats have primaries?
Oh you sweet summer child.
Polls are bullshit, quit relying on them.
You’re right, the polls that show Jill Stein having no chance in this election are bullshit. She does have a chance, I’m voting for her
She didn’t win a single EC vote in 2012, or in 2016, let alone anywhere close to the 270 needed. This election isn’t going to be any different.
Classic tactic of accusing your opponent of what you’re doing.
What on Earth are you trying to say?
“Some of you may die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make” is exactly your stance with Palestinians.
By arguing against the candidate who has told Israel to do whatever it wants and accused Dems of not supporting Israel hard enough?
That is an, uhhhh, interesting take.
Dude Trump is lying. How do you not get that? Biden and Harris have done everything they can for Israel. It’s in Trump’s favor to lie about that and make it seem like he can do more, but he really can’t. We’re giving them money, weapons, and now even soldiers as fast as we can.
By supporting someone who has their blood on their hands and is fully supportive of the ongoing genocide. Pretty cold take, actually.
And the alternative is more dead Palestineans.
Believe it or not, the world is not as you wish it to be, it just is. And it’s for us to do as best we can for others given the real world constraints.
As there are two options and one is worse for Palestineans, I support the one that is better for them.
It’s not super complicated.
You have to support 99% Hitler who wants to hand out cookies before committing mass slaughter because if you don’t you’re supporting 100% Hitler and no cookies, which would make one a monster.
There are actually more options beyond those, if people would take them. It’s a self-fulfilling prophesy to say that other options aren’t viable. It’s better to try to fight against that than to be complicit in supporting it. If it’s impossible, then it would be better to boycott the system altogether. Under no circumstances is supporting genocide morally justified.
Helping trump IS supporting genocide.
What other options are there in a FPTP system?
“
somehundreds of thousands of youmaywill die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make” is exactly what vote blue no matter who people are saying to arab americans who are uncomitted votersRemoved by mod
More will die under Trump than Harris.
Anyone who is against Israel’s genocide is not voting for Trump.
What’s your point?
And if Trump is elected, ALL of them will die if he gets his way and he admitted as much.
It’s too late in the game to bother educating you on this, but it’s never too late to call out your bullshit.
I will say- it’s very telling how the closer we get to the election, the more .ml accounts are showing up to “nuh-uhhhh! everything any everyone that disagrees with them. Even when proof is provided.
You guys must have recently received your marching orders and are working overtime to accomplish your goal!
Можешь заменить меня? Я иду за едой
Dude. Trump is already complaining that we are supporting Israel enough. You think he’s magically going to change his mind and pull the plug on supporting them once he’s in office? Fuckin delulu
You think Harris is going to magically change her mind when she’s the one doing the current genocide? Trump lies btw. Like all the time. It’s in his interest to make it seem like Biden isn’t helping Israel enough because the Republican party has more fervent Zionists but he’s easily been the most pro-Israel President in history.
Selfish and dumb people may as well just be (involuntary) Russian puppets.
I wouldn’t give the Russian troll farms all the credit. There is a lot of activity coming from Iran as well. Especially on this topic.
