What an utter piece of shit.
It’s cute how if Ukraine fights back that risks nuclear war, but when Russia invades a sovereign country it doesn’t
It’s like the rule of money, but with nukes: those who have the money/nukes, make the rules.
Ukraine doesn’t have nukes
Not anymore. They gave them to Russia under guarantees they wouldt do… pretty much everything they are doing right now.
I’m starting to think Russia might not be trustworthy…
Yeah, in the mid 90s the world was so optimistic about Russia, and frankly reassured about the nukes going to Russia, which was believed to be the more confidently governed nation state.
Everyone was still riding high on the cold war seemingly coming to a close.
Too bad so sad! Should have been smart like Kim Jong. Keep some nukes and you don’t get invaded.
Russia has set us back centuries on global nuclear disarmament.
No, I’m pretty sure they haven’t stopped anybody from disarming. But I think everyone should have nukes anyway.
You make a good point. Ukraine should build some of their own nukes.
US would never allow this. Ukraine is only useful if it can function as a buffer state for a proxy war.
They would have to figure out how to do it and they aren’t smart enough, better if they ask Russia to lend them some in exchange for surrendering all disputed territories.
wtf? bruh is this a Russian shill account?
Absolutely
It’s gotta be. They praise Musk for stopping a nuclear war but later say they believe every country should have nukes lmao
Sorry for being a realist!
You’re trolling but I unironically agree
That doesn’t address the previous claim in any manner.
I think he addressed it clearly enough. Russia invading Ukraine has no risk of Ukraine starting a nuclear war. Why? Because Ukraine does not have nukes.
A country like Russia, if facing an existential threat, has the capacity and incentive to use nuclear weapons. Why? Because they have nukes.
This is why even the US had hesitations last year (same time this Starlink episode happened) about sending certain types of weapons to Ukraine - out of fear of nuclear escalation. Now that Ukraine has drone striked Russian territory a few times it seems obvious because nuclear escalation hasn’t happened… but Musk was not alone in thinking this. Remember that US refused to give all sorts of weaponry at first. They didn’t want to give fighters jets, tanks, etc.
Hang on… That’s sabotage. Straight up. That’s a criminal offence no?
Yes. Assisting putler’s genocide against Ukrainian children is a war crime.
Yep, but he’s rich. I fully expect nothing to happen.
Yeah. According to the article, he straight up told the top military brass of the Biden administration right afterwards and they did nothing. No prosecution, no whistle-blowing to the press about a war crime. Nothing.
What do you suggest they do?
Prosecute him, of course! Maybe hit him with sanctions for directly supporting the Russian war effort? Because that’s what stopping an attack on their fleet is.
Prosecute him for what?
Are you dense?
Krolden is asking specifically what crime he should be charged with, implying you would struggle to find one. This certainly isn’t treason against the US because the US is not legally involved in the war. It’s unclear from their post whether they support Ukraine or Russia in the conflict so I’d suggest taking it at face value.
Why can’t you answer the question?
Check his party affiliation
What
For what countries laws? He’s not a Ukrainian citizen
So if you’re not an American you’re free to sabotage the US as much as you want and it’s not a crime?
So if you’re not an American you’re free to sabotage the US as much as you want and it’s not a crime?
Two points.
First, US laws apply on US soil, or to US citizens. If you’re neither, then cooperation and extradition agreements apply, if there are any.
Second, not sure where you got the “sabotage the US” part from:
- the request came from Ukraine
- from the beginning, Musk has been sabotaging Russia by disabling Starlink outside of Ukrainian borders, this was supported by both Ukraine and the US
- the Ukrainian request was for removing part of the sabotage so Ukraine could attack Russia with Ukrainian drones
- it wasn’t a US request, it didn’t involve any US assets, or any US operations
Maybe Ukraine should have asked the US, instead of asking a private non-Ukrainian citizen.
First, US laws apply on US soil, or to US citizens. If you’re neither, then cooperation and extradition agreements apply, if there are any.
Yup, and the US charges non-citzens that are not on their soil all the time. If they can’t get the extradition there’s nothing they can do about it unless the person sets foot on US soil, but that doesn’t stop it from being a criminal offence or from the person being charged.
Second, not sure where you got the “sabotage the US” part from
It was an analogy. The person I was replying to seemed to be saying “It can’t be a criminal offence because Musk isn’t Ukranian” which is nonsense. I assumed they where likely American and used an example of something closer to home to show why that is incorrect.
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First, US laws apply on US soil, or to US citizens. If you’re neither, then cooperation and extradition agreements apply, if there are any.
No, this is demonstrably false in many areas of law.
For example OFAC explicitly targets non US persons and organizations in sanctions enforcement. It is explicitly written into nearly every presidential order authorizing sanctions. I’d be happy to direct you to a few if you like, but you can just pick any from here: https://ofac.treasury.gov
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Yeah but it’s not called treason, treason is to your own country, ofc this is still an illegal offense in Ukraine but I don’t think it’s treason?
The parent comments are talking about sabotage. You added the word treason.
I think he replied to the wrong comment.
If he loves Russia so much, we should deport him there, and nationalize all his assets since SpaceX is a critical security apparatus and he’s clearly the foreign agent of a hostile power.
No no, give him to Ukrain, where they can charge and try him. Hopefully end up with life in prison or something better (worse?). Giving him to Russia just makes him more of a Russian asset.
Or OR we ask him to emerge from the Black Sea in his swim trunks to beguile both sides with his majestic beauty and raw sexuality, thereby ending the conflict and bringing peace to the regionneeds less hair transplant
He looks like Buffalo Bill here: “I’d fuck me!”.
(As Q Lazarus blasts in the background.)
This right here is why I think he was honeypotted by Russian agents who now have kompromat on him.
Then again, being a greedy douche seems his default mode.
This assumes he provides something of value beyond his money
Of value or not, he needs to be trotted out in front of Ukrainian justice. Giving him a free pass to live with his Russian buddies is NOT justice and is not a deterrent for others who would also practice such treachery. Stop trying to save him, you Russian sympathizer.
I think you misunderstand, I’m just saying what kind of “asset” would he be? I’m making a disparaging comment against him.
Perhaps save some of those knee-jerks for the doctor
Where would be the fun in that?
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Elon is not the president, a leader, the military, nor a government. This parasite should be in a prison or a brig at the very least. This is fucking treason.
He controls 10K satellites, the electric car charging infrastructure, and a massive global communications platform. He’s too big to control. Good thing we hero-worshipped him for years. 🫢 🤭
He doesn’t personally control any of that. Each of those organizations could continue on without him, probably happier to be rid of him.
Yep. It’s always good to remind everyone that he didn’t build anything, nor did he found Tesla.
The boards and probably kick him out and be better off.
But people think he controls that. And, just as with hundred-dollar bills, what we believe gives things power.
Too big? Hold my TCP/IP stack…
He’s the richest man in the world. He could buy his own fucking island and never be arrested. Can one country shut down Twitter, Tesla, or SpaceX?
I’ve heard this a bit. Treason is a crime against your own country, no? How is this treason?
He’s twarthing the war effort of a country the US is supporting. I don’t know if he broke any laws but he’s defenitely on the government’s shitlist now.
he’s definitely on the government’s shitlist now
A billionaire who donates shitloads to both of the corporations masquerading as political parties? On the US government’s shitlist? Oh you sweet summer child…
Please head on back to reddit with that “sweet summer child” bullshit
Reddit doesn’t own GOT memes. Please head on back to anywhere other people aren’t with your “I decide what memes are allowed on Lemmy” bullshit.
Go cry on reddit about it
You go, I like it here when not having to deal with pompous gatekeepers like yourself 🤷
It’s not. His actions can be deplorable without actually being illegal. The Lemmy Bar Association is about as legally competent as my cat.
So if during the occupation of Afghanistan, I fought for the Taliban but only killed Afghan Army soldiers, I could return to the USA without any worries?
Giving comfort to the enemy has a name, what is it again?
US is not at war with Russia so it is not treason.
Jeez, people in this thread are hysterical.
lol Russia seems to think it’s at war with the US
If Russia wants to be at war with the US, they can issue a war declaration.
They haven’t so far, and they know why.
Nato is in war with russia. We train soldier, we send equipment, we give intelligence…If this is not being in a war I dont know…
US is in a proxy war-- totally different to an actual war. Was the Soviet Union at war with the US when the former funded and trained North Vietnam during the Vietnam War?
I think we can all admit, decades later…yes.
Of course people would say that. As much as I dislike Elon, he can’t be charged for treason because the US is not at war. The best that the US and allies could do is break contract with him or isolate him politically. But he’s rich and well connected so I doubt anything will happen to him.
Yes
St Helena.
Can donnie Bin Laden join him in there?
Fucking charge him with something. This is insane… If it’s not treason, it sure as hell is undermining the billions of dollars in aid were sending Ukraine. We’ve sent 76 billion dollars so far.
Yeah, if an unelected CEO can tell a democratically elected government what it can and can’t do we’re no better than medieval peasants who had to bow and scrape for the nobles’ favor
we’re no better than medieval peasants who had to bow and scrape for the nobles’ favor
It’s been like that for decades(centuries?). The rich do as they please and the rest of us are treated like livestock. It’s impressive citizens don’t revolt more than they do these days.
But they keep giving us beer and bread so we arre happy.
That won’t work forever.
Especially when the price of bread keeps rising faster than wages.
Vote with your wallet. If you hate him so much don’t buy anything from him. It’s a fair meritocracy, if you think you can run a better space satellite company you are welcome to try
Great parody account!
You know at SpaceX and Tesla, there is a layer of management between Musk and the actual production team, that does nothing but run interference. Their job is to make sure the companies stay running and moving forward, DESPITE, what Musk says.
That sounds like it was made up by somebody who is jealous of his intelligence and leadership skills
My dude, a rock wouldn’t be jealous of Musk’s “intelligence”
Then why are you?
I think it’s funny that Musk simps think peoppe are jealous when we criticize him. Honey, I wouldn’t trade places with Musk if you paid me. I already dealt with teenage insecurities, and I’d rather have average amounts of money and people who actually love me than a yawning void in my soul constantly sereking approval from adoring crowds. I want to be decent and useful to the world more than I want to be rich. And I’m not alone. You wanting to be Elon Musk doesn’t mean everyone does.
You people need to stop feeding the trolls. If you actually think this isn’t a satirical account after reading the other shit he has posted, then you yourself are likely insane.
Stop wasting your time, the only way to make them go away is to ignore them.
Bold of you to assume I took the time to read the other stuff he posted. And ignoring trolls doesn’t actually do much to discourage them, ime. So I’ll keep doing as I please, thanks.
Go back to X, Elon. Nobody wants you here.
“It’s a fair meritocracy…” I do not think those words mean what you think they mean.
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Stop trying to tell a private citizen and businessman what he can and can’t do with his own business
He got to where he is with government funding.
Turn off the tap. Now.
First of all he got there by being the best businessman in the world, lots a hard work and plucky stick-to-it-ive-ness plus a keen eye for innovation. Think about this. If he hadn’t used his space satellites to stop the Ukies, Putin could have launched the Nukies! Basically he saved the planet and this is the thanks you give him. No good deed goes unpunished
This parody tankie account is too close to the real thing to work. Leave some room for satire, broskie.
I don’t know what that is
lmao
Best business man in the world. Buys an unprofitable company for 40b, then runs it directly into the ground. Genius.
It’s part of a bigger strategy that you wouldn’t understand
Neither does he.
His brain is too big and powerful for lazy poors to keep up with his plans. He works in mysterious ways.
Strategically losing billions, bold plan cotton
The troll account is annoying when you’re crowding out other discussion.
I’m the only one bringing common sense to these discussions at all
He got where he is off the back of slavery in an emerald mine his father runs you twat
When you have a contract with the federal government it comes with stipulations. Don’t “private citizen” this. It’s not a mom and pop store.
But Starlink DIDN’T have a contract with the US government, DOD, or Ukraine government. That’s the point. And they went ahead and used it for guided munitions.
Which is a violation of the terms of service and not what anyone at SpaceX had intended.
Problem is, that’s exactly how they ended up being used!
You’re tracking that Starlink sells service directly to the US military for activities that aren’t exactly tickle parties right?
True, but didn’t Starshield happen after this stuff? I guess I need to relook at the timeline. But as I remember things, he started tossing starlink access at Ukraine, tried to get DoD to pay, they chose not to. Then he started to these games, and after that DoD started paying up. Starshield was announced a little bit after that.
Where do you draw the line? Should he also be allowed to sell his services to Russia? Should private companies from the US be allowed to sell arms to Russia?
Never mind that. Let’s suppose he can sell his services to whomever he likes.
What about the privacy implications? How did he know that specific attack was planned? Can he just listen in on any communication going across Starlink? I don’t think anyone should be okay with that.
How did he know that specific attack was planned?
Ukraine asked him to extend Starlink coverage for the attack.
No conspiracy theory needed, they just told him.
Since he runs Starlink, he has a map of where every single Starlink receiver is located. Literally, a real time map with GPS coordinates.
Russia would kill to have that info.
However, musk also hack and jam proofed Starlink to help Ukraine too.
There’s currently sanctions on buying or selling a lot of things from Russia aren’t there?
The whole reason this happened is because he disabled Starlink satellites over Russia in order to help the Ukrainian war effort. He just refused to turn it on for a specific offensive operation in Crimea that Ukraine requested - claiming he wanted to avoid escalation. Him and the US government were in agreement during time. Remember the US did not want to give tanks and planes because of fear of escalation.
I don’t mean to try and put a damper on the 5 minute hate session but I wish people would make an effort to try and understand what is happening before they make all sorts of wild conclusions and statements.
I’m not sure where the line is but expecting a private citizen to provide vital defense infrastructure to your foreign allies and continually act in your best interests is clearly past it.
The issue is removing infrastructure on your own personal whims when it goes against what your own tax payers are paying for, especially when they have funded your company / companies. It’s obscene.
Except it wasn’t “removed”, he declined to “extend” it before getting paid by those tax payers.
Of course. That’s called capitalism and the free market. Don’t like it? Move to Venezuela
Nah, I’d rather attack the cancer that is capitalism at the source and work to rid the world of its scourge once and for all. Sorry you chose the loser’s side.
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Again, I’d rather stay here in the USA and make sure I spend every waking moment working to make sure we take the food out of your bowl specifically to give it to the lesser off and more deserving.
Die mad, irrelevant dinosaur.
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How do you figure he stopped anything? If he wanted to stop a war he should reach out to the Russian leaders he’s claiming to have talked to and get them to leave Ukraine. Instead he believes their bluffs goes back for more.
There’s no way this person isn’t either a troll or paid PR by Musk
He saw a nuclear war coming and he used his space satellite techno-prowess to stop it. We can only be grateful he was there to head it off, or you wouldn’t even be able to type stupid things on the internet anymore
So, he’s the final arbiter of nuclear war? Not you know, someone in the military, not someone who actually knows anything about war. A single private citizen who just happens to have a ton of money and power. Uh huh.
Well if Castro got what he wanted, he would have launched nukes in the 60s. But russia didnt give him the codes
He has more money because he knows the most about everything. Nobody in the military is as successful as Elon
Why? I think capitalism’s a toxic system and he has no moral right to his wealth.
“Citizen” is the critical word here
“Ukraine” telling a “US citizen” what to do, are the critical words here.
Hes a US Citizen undermining the US Government
Is he? Did the US Government issue an order to attack Russian assets? Even Russian assets on Ukrainian soil? Even to support any Ukrainian effort to attack Russian assets?
So far it’s been a “we give Ukraine some stuff and intel, and let them do the fighting while keeping a semblance of plausible deniability”.
Sounds more like a direct involvement in the attack, would’ve been undermining the US Government.
Exactly, you can’t have your cake and eat it - if we want to live in a sane and moral world we shouldn’t let private citizens own things that are important, especially not satellite infrastructure
Any system capable of manipulating the outcomes of international conflict needs to become property of the government via eminent domain…especially if that system is used…especially if used by an entrepreneur operating without oversight.
Deactivating US military hardware in the middle of a conflict sounds a lot like an act of treason…
From what I understand he didn’t deactivate it… it was already deactivated and he refused to turn it on.
He had disabled starlink systems over Russian territories - in order to help Ukraine. This included Crimea. Ukraine last year wanted to do a drone-strike on Crimea, so they asked Musk to turn them on. He refused, claiming he was scared of war escalation and that he didn’t want to be involved in offensive war operations.
The way you put it is at the very least a rationale. Obviously it can be debated one way or the other, but it makes more sense than him being overtly pro-Russia. I don’t think he’s so dumb as to make it obvious.
Yeah don’t trust headlines. They create the best possible headline to make as many people as interested as possible… forget about the truth or nuance. During this same period, remember that the US didn’t want to give fighter jets or tanks to Ukraine out of fear of escalation. Musk was essentially following official US military policy.
Don’t trust billionaires to do the right thing.
I agree. No one man should have all that power.
But we’re not really talking about “what ifs” or “ideal worlds”
This is the world we have and this is what happened.
“As Ukrainian submarine drones strapped with explosives approached the Russian fleet, they “lost connectivity and washed ashore harmlessly,” Isaacson writes.”
That’s from the CNN article over this. The drones were in the middle of their approach when they got deactivated.
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You mean Ukrainian military hardware?
A lot of the Ukrainian dishes were purchased by the US military and given to Ukraine, so they are ostensibly both
Its not military hardware
Whose government though? That’s the issue with this thinking. As a person who does not live in the US, I’m not sure I want the US to own everything that can be used in war.
I mean if a person does anything directly affecting a war (for any side) I’d say that person is a wartime volunteer.
Wartime volunteers that have taken up arms are a absolutely viable target for military strikes.
Just saying 🤷♂️
So the US government is a viable target?
Anyone considering striking US likely realizes the fallout from that strategy though
Emphasis on “Fallout”.
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Also the US could probably out fight anyone else on a conventional level. Far more humiliating too.
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Iraq and Afghanistan had their militaries levelled in a matter of days. It’s the occupation that created problems
🎵 I don’t want to set the world on fire… 🎵
During the cold war, there were plenty of instances of fighting between us and soviet forces, not to mention the huge amount of proxy fighting done. Personally, I’m not interested in drawing up a sequel to the cold war.
I hate to say it, but we are likely already in the sequel.
Why though? There’s been plenty of hot and cold wars, plenty of proxy wars.
This isn’t special in that regard, except now using the propaganda talking points of view a fascist enemy is done without a hint of shame from the stooges who do it.
As I see it, we’re at a turning point. Either we continue a path of escalation, or we back down, either would be feasible given our current position, but that said current position isn’t somewhere we can stay. We either need to accept that sacrificing some global influence is necessary to avoid foreign wars, or that maintaining our current global influence inevitably requires putting soldiers behind our words.
This is a weird take… The war in Ukraine is largely being fought because Russia isn’t going to stop with Ukraine. We’re protecting our allies in Europe, and looking to prevent further escalation, not simply exerting influence on a far-away foreign war.
The escalating party is 100% the aggressing party that’s invading a sovereign nation. That’s Russia, not the United States.
I mean, unless you’re speaking as a Russian citizen? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding your point of view here.
This is the exact attitude I was trying to call out. We are absolutely escalating our participation in this conflict. Trying to strattle the line of participation, where nothing we do is our own fault, and neither are any of the consequences we face. Because I’m not sure how well you did in middle school geography, but the US is, in fact, not a part of Europe. This war has no direct impact on the US beyond the extent we choose to be involved.
Now if you view the benefits of involvement as greater than the risks, fine. That’s a perfectly coherent position. One I don’t agree with, but a rational position nonetheless. But to pretend our involvement is just a force of nature we have no control over? That’s just a bunch of excuses to support involvement without having to openly commit to a position of involvement.
Are you seriously saying we should just stand back and let Russia take Ukraine?
I don’t fucking care what happens in Ukraine
I think Neville Chamberlain had the right idea.
I know a lot of Jews who’d take issue with that.
For a lot of reasons, yes
Yes, but go ahead and see what happens
Always has been
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Oh yeah, I don’t mean to say otherwise. It was more a rhetorical question to point out the nature of how these things always end up escalating.
Starlink is not providing an essential service to Ukraine. They do not have the right to expect SpaceX to cooperate with their military effort when SpaceX is a US company under dual-use rules to not unilaterally provide military connectivity to weapons systems to foreign nations.
Ukraine must do military procurement properly and go through the US government to get approval, not whatever this is. They used a civilian service for military purposes, so they are in breach of the terms of use of Starlink and should not be surprised when services degrades at SpaceX’s whims.
The law priorities the health of people, but Starlink isn’t meant for use like this, so this analogy is moot.
Are you sure you meant to respond to me?
If that comment was in error, I can only blame Jerboa for being really broken and unpolished lol
Elon is a Russian bitch just like the rest of the billionaires.
It seems like privatization is working out great for us 👍
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You’re completely missing the point. Musk actively took part in the war with this, without any oversight.
How so, by providing defensive abilities only from the get go? Sorry your pet “latest thing” Ukraine didn’t get to use American infrastructure to kill and do your bidding.
Make sure to save this for the next time that shitbird or one of his moron suckups tries to say he helped Ukraine. Fucker oughtta be treated the same as any Russian collaborator.
No, save this when he eventually sneaks in a putin missile somehow.
But the truly galaxy brain move is in this article:
After CNN’s reporting, Musk reversed course, tweeting “the hell with it … we’ll just keep funding Ukraine govt for free.”
Gwynne Shotwell, Musk’s president at SpaceX, was livid at Musk’s reversal, according to Isaacson.
“The Pentagon had a $145 million check ready to hand to me, literally,” Isaacson quotes Shotwell as saying. “Then Elon succumbed to the bullshit on Twitter and to the haters at the Pentagon who leaked the story.”
Musk confirmed idiot
That has been confirmed many times before this.
but he has money, thus he is extra super smart!
Worthington’s Law!
Eh, he got another 100,000 subscribers out of it.
Yeah we keep finding out more and more ways this mofo sucks. Somebody needs to strap him to the front of his stupid rocket and launch him into orbit.
Strap him to a rocket and aim it at a wall
Waste of a good rocket. Strap him in a Tesla and put it on autopilot
Waste of good scrap, hang him and stab him with a spear.
Just take his money away, he’ll kill himself.
But that might damage the wall.
Maybe we could use an old 7-11 that’s scheduled for demolition anyway.
OH YEAH!
I don’t know… I’d like if like to see him reunited with the tesla he shot up there. It’d be kind of poetic.
Between the drag and the weight it’d be a waste of payload capacity.
So use him as ejection mass to help the propulsion?
Muskovite belongs in prison with the other russian war criminals.
“Starlink was not meant to be involved in wars. It was so people can watch Netflix and chill and get online for school and do good peaceful things, not drone strikes.”
Yes my satellite that is actively being used in a war should be designed only for Netflix and chill.
Fuck you, Elon - you festering vomit of a man.
