Yeah hubris probably isn’t the way to go when you’re losing in national polls 10 pts below where you were in 2020 at this time… And you’re losing in every battleground state… And you’re losing black and Hispanic voters… And the desperation play of asking for this debate to break the steady decline in polling utterly backfired.
Riddle me this: what if Biden’s condition worsens from here until November and it’s far past the convention to do anything? He’s not getting younger. The bad days, the sundowning will only get worse.
People are itching to vote for anyone but a senile geratric and a criminal geriatric. Give the people what they want.
Are these Black and Hispanic voters going to the guy that talked about immigrants “taking Black jobs?” or eventually “taking Hispanic jobs too”? How can any minority vote for a man that is clearly a racist through and through. His father was a racist, arrested marching with the KKK, and they both got fined for not renting to people of color. He has a history of using minority and immigrant labor so he can threaten and cheat them out of pay. The list goes on and on. Biden may not be a saint (far from it), but he at least believes in democracy.
Also that debate was the perfect storm for Biden.
He was clearly getting over a cold and sounded like he needed to clear his throat the whole time.
Because of #1 it made overcoming his speech issues like his stutter all the more difficult, requiring more mental processing than normal.
The debate format of no guardrails and having 2 minutes to both try and state your talking points, and also trying to counter the absolute bullshit word salad of lies Trump was spewing his way was a lot to process for anyone, let alone an 81yr old.
CNN gave in to the Right and dropped the fact checking that afternoon, but Biden really had no choice but to show up. Imagine what conspiracy theories would have come out of Biden pulling out last minute because his campaign knew it was going to be a shit show. You can’t reason with people acting in bad faith, and once the fact checking was removed this “debate” was a lose/lose situation for Biden.
I don’t disagree that Biden’s showing was disheartening, but I also think the fact that he was actually trying to convey a message, while having a firehouse of shit spewed at him from his right should factor into that as well. It was a “debate” with someone acting in bad faith and Joe trying to follow the rules, with basically no moderation at all. It wasn’t a debate, but more like trying to have a rational talk with a kid that just keeps sticking out his tongue and making fart noises.
My in-laws are 1st gen immigrants. They literally crossed the border illegally to get here. They busted their ass to become citizens, and are generally great people.
They vote Trump.
I have actually heard from their mouths that the illegals coming into this country are ruining it. BITCH YOU WERE ONE!
They think Trump is a good business man, but above all else, being Catholic, they are so anti abortion, that Biden is the spawn of Satan for suggesting that abortion is an individuals choice, and nothing else matters.
This story is repeated over and over in the Hispanic communities.
I’m as flabbergasted as anyone that polls are this close but here we are. Right-wing media controls the narrative and has had a stranglehold on this country. The polls don’t lie; they’re the canary in the coal mine sounding the alarm. So let’s face it: there is no datapoint you can point to that Biden where Biden isn’t doing significantly-worse compared to his 2020 campaign. I don’t give a fuck how you try to spin it, that’s not a good sign. Face hard truths of reality. The propaganda of the right is working with key voting groups whether we like it or not.
Neither cold nor stutter causes someone to jump from abortion to immigration mid-sentence and routinely lose their train of thought. How much experience do you have being around old people? My wife and I work in a hospital, but shit you should he able to relate with grandparents in their 80s. It could even be sundowning. I also don’t believe your 3rd point is doing you any favors. Biden campaigned on being a fighter to push the bully back. If he can’t hold his own as an 81-year-old, then that is very clearly a problem. Someone as experienced as Biden should easily be able to hold their own in a debate, being in politics as long as he has.
Look, I voted for Biden once and if it comes down to it I’d vote for a corpse over Trump. But as I’ve said over and over again: it’s not me you have to convince. The 2020 election was won by 40,000 votes across 3 states. And as I said, by every single metric, Biden is performing far worse than then. Not good. I hate to say it but I’d bet against Biden winning now.
Biden asked for the debate out of desperation to reach voters. They set most of the rules. Both campaigns signed off on the rules. It backfired tremendously, irreparably.
I think the polls are close because only a certain subset of voters are in them.
Did you participate in the poll?
I ask because I didn’t. I’m not even sure how I could but can’t be bothered to figure it out, and it doesn’t seem like it means much.
I also asked my coworkers if they were in any of these polls. Out of the whole lunchroom, one old guy said he used to do them, years ago when they would call him and ask questions. But they haven’t in a long while.
So that’s a whole lunchroom not represented in the polls, and I doubt we’re the exception. But we will all be voting come November.
Let’s make it easy for Joe. He doesn’t have to counter everything. Just say, “Everything my opponent said is a lie.” “Again, he’s lying. Here’s the truth”. And then ignore it. You know T**** is going to lie. It’s a given. It’s a trap to try to refute, so just call it a lie and move on.
That might free up some mental power to focus on proper messaging and not melt down.
Well hindsight is always 20/20, and some of the topics you could tell Biden felt passionate about exacerbating his trouble articulating his thoughts. Overall I don’t think a “debate” is the correct format for trying to contrast himself with Trump. You can’t argue with the kid that is just going to stick out his tongue or make fart noises anytime you try and talk, and that is what Joe was trying to do with Trump.
Most people don’t have a political education nor do they follow political news. They vote based in vibes and a knee-jerk reaction to the party in power. You can launder a lot of self-destructive behavior in that recipe.
Sorry, I can’t find it now. I know I read or heard it around the time of the debate, but have no idea where at this point so I’ve noted such above. And up until I saw a post here on Lemmy about how much of a train wreck it was early on I wasn’t even going to watch the debate at all, because I already know I’m pro-democracy and that is really what this election is all about.
Thank you for fact checking me though, I don’t want to be the source of inaccurate information.
Yeah hubris probably isn’t the way to go when you’re losing in national polls 10 pts below where you were in 2020 at this time… And you’re losing in every battleground state… And you’re losing black and Hispanic voters… And the desperation play of asking for this debate to break the steady decline in polling utterly backfired.
Riddle me this: what if Biden’s condition worsens from here until November and it’s far past the convention to do anything? He’s not getting younger. The bad days, the sundowning will only get worse.
People are itching to vote for anyone but a senile geratric and a criminal geriatric. Give the people what they want.
Are these Black and Hispanic voters going to the guy that talked about immigrants “taking Black jobs?” or eventually “taking Hispanic jobs too”? How can any minority vote for a man that is clearly a racist through and through. His father was a racist, arrested marching with the KKK, and they both got fined for not renting to people of color. He has a history of using minority and immigrant labor so he can threaten and cheat them out of pay. The list goes on and on. Biden may not be a saint (far from it), but he at least believes in democracy.
Also that debate was the perfect storm for Biden.
I don’t disagree that Biden’s showing was disheartening, but I also think the fact that he was actually trying to convey a message, while having a firehouse of shit spewed at him from his right should factor into that as well. It was a “debate” with someone acting in bad faith and Joe trying to follow the rules, with basically no moderation at all. It wasn’t a debate, but more like trying to have a rational talk with a kid that just keeps sticking out his tongue and making fart noises.
My in-laws are 1st gen immigrants. They literally crossed the border illegally to get here. They busted their ass to become citizens, and are generally great people.
They vote Trump.
I have actually heard from their mouths that the illegals coming into this country are ruining it. BITCH YOU WERE ONE!
They think Trump is a good business man, but above all else, being Catholic, they are so anti abortion, that Biden is the spawn of Satan for suggesting that abortion is an individuals choice, and nothing else matters.
This story is repeated over and over in the Hispanic communities.
I’m as flabbergasted as anyone that polls are this close but here we are. Right-wing media controls the narrative and has had a stranglehold on this country. The polls don’t lie; they’re the canary in the coal mine sounding the alarm. So let’s face it: there is no datapoint you can point to that Biden where Biden isn’t doing significantly-worse compared to his 2020 campaign. I don’t give a fuck how you try to spin it, that’s not a good sign. Face hard truths of reality. The propaganda of the right is working with key voting groups whether we like it or not.
Neither cold nor stutter causes someone to jump from abortion to immigration mid-sentence and routinely lose their train of thought. How much experience do you have being around old people? My wife and I work in a hospital, but shit you should he able to relate with grandparents in their 80s. It could even be sundowning. I also don’t believe your 3rd point is doing you any favors. Biden campaigned on being a fighter to push the bully back. If he can’t hold his own as an 81-year-old, then that is very clearly a problem. Someone as experienced as Biden should easily be able to hold their own in a debate, being in politics as long as he has.
Look, I voted for Biden once and if it comes down to it I’d vote for a corpse over Trump. But as I’ve said over and over again: it’s not me you have to convince. The 2020 election was won by 40,000 votes across 3 states. And as I said, by every single metric, Biden is performing far worse than then. Not good. I hate to say it but I’d bet against Biden winning now.
Biden asked for the debate out of desperation to reach voters. They set most of the rules. Both campaigns signed off on the rules. It backfired tremendously, irreparably.
I think the polls are close because only a certain subset of voters are in them.
Did you participate in the poll?
I ask because I didn’t. I’m not even sure how I could but can’t be bothered to figure it out, and it doesn’t seem like it means much.
I also asked my coworkers if they were in any of these polls. Out of the whole lunchroom, one old guy said he used to do them, years ago when they would call him and ask questions. But they haven’t in a long while.
So that’s a whole lunchroom not represented in the polls, and I doubt we’re the exception. But we will all be voting come November.
Let’s make it easy for Joe. He doesn’t have to counter everything. Just say, “Everything my opponent said is a lie.” “Again, he’s lying. Here’s the truth”. And then ignore it. You know T**** is going to lie. It’s a given. It’s a trap to try to refute, so just call it a lie and move on.
That might free up some mental power to focus on proper messaging and not melt down.
Well hindsight is always 20/20, and some of the topics you could tell Biden felt passionate about exacerbating his trouble articulating his thoughts. Overall I don’t think a “debate” is the correct format for trying to contrast himself with Trump. You can’t argue with the kid that is just going to stick out his tongue or make fart noises anytime you try and talk, and that is what Joe was trying to do with Trump.
Most people don’t have a political education nor do they follow political news. They vote based in vibes and a knee-jerk reaction to the party in power. You can launder a lot of self-destructive behavior in that recipe.
I can’t find anything to corroberate #4. Do you have a reference?
I mean they didn’t really correct anything that was incorrectly stated.
But if you insist.
I’m talking about the date and time of it being changed. You wrote:
But from what I can tell, the rules had been set for a couple of months.
Not the op you responded to, but, I suppose, it’s a fair question.
Although unsure of the timeline, the fact checking drop is something that was definitely agreed to by both parties before hand.
Maybe they’re referring to how “Before the debate, Biden allies tried to pressure the CNN moderators, Jake Tapper and Dana Bash, to aggressively fact-check any false statements made by Mr. Trump. CNN leadership made clear that the moderators would facilitate the discussion but that any fact-checking would be left to the candidates.”. Like they had a chance to reconsider, but decided to stick with the original terms?
Sorry, I can’t find it now. I know I read or heard it around the time of the debate, but have no idea where at this point so I’ve noted such above. And up until I saw a post here on Lemmy about how much of a train wreck it was early on I wasn’t even going to watch the debate at all, because I already know I’m pro-democracy and that is really what this election is all about.
Thank you for fact checking me though, I don’t want to be the source of inaccurate information.
I would vote for a potato before trump. Any sane person would at this point.
Please stop using this argument. It’s a classic echo chamber claim. If it was true there wouldn’t be people complaining, much less voting for Trump.
I would, too, but there are a lot of insane people in America these days my friend.