I’m keen to hear more about the “strange ways it’s been used in the US”!
Also, I’m wondering if the US has seen changes in how gangs structure themselves or loopholes to avoid this issue? What about abuse by the police (e.g. what’s the level of proof needed to show you’re the gang leader)?
The RICO Act itself is strange. An organisation must engage in two or more “racketeering activities” within 10 years. It’s a long list of pretty much all serious crimes. It’s in the RICO predicate offences section of the Wikipedia page.
If an organisation is in violation of the Act, any member can be charged with any of those offences committed by any other member. The idea is to use that pressure to get them to turn on the leaders. It also means they can go after anyone they think is really in charged. But it’s up to prosecutors to make sure only those most responsible are charged.
It’s far too broad of a definition, in my opinion. And it’s too open to corruption and interpretation. If we were to enact something similar here, those details would need to change.
I’m keen to hear more about the “strange ways it’s been used in the US”!
Because the definition is so broad, it’s been used to go after members of regular corporations, like FIFA and a healthcare provider. Whether or not those people deserved to be charged, it goes way beyond the intended scope of the law.
If an organisation is in violation of the Act, any member can be charged with any of those offences committed by any other member. The idea is to use that pressure to get them to turn on the leaders. It also means they can go after anyone they think is really in charged. But it’s up to prosecutors to make sure only those most responsible are charged.
It also sounds like the leaders can set things up from the beginning to falsely point at a fall guy?
I think the point is to go after the leaders rather than the henchmen who will just be replaced.
Usually it’s not too hard to establish who the leader is, even if it’s not always easy to prove. I imagine that’s another reason they’re allowed to go after any member.
I’m thinking more like having a 2IC acting as the boss, giving orders, all the henchmen think they are the leader when actually he’s got the real leader whispering orders to him in secret.
In theory it wouldn’t matter. There are only so many people you can have able to act as the leader. If you took out the 2IC and another took their place so you got them as well, etc. Then you’d likely disrupt the organisation even if you didn’t get the true leader - and one of the 2ICs might sell out the boss for a deal so you’d probably find out about them eventually.
I’m keen to hear more about the “strange ways it’s been used in the US”!
Also, I’m wondering if the US has seen changes in how gangs structure themselves or loopholes to avoid this issue? What about abuse by the police (e.g. what’s the level of proof needed to show you’re the gang leader)?
The RICO Act itself is strange. An organisation must engage in two or more “racketeering activities” within 10 years. It’s a long list of pretty much all serious crimes. It’s in the RICO predicate offences section of the Wikipedia page.
If an organisation is in violation of the Act, any member can be charged with any of those offences committed by any other member. The idea is to use that pressure to get them to turn on the leaders. It also means they can go after anyone they think is really in charged. But it’s up to prosecutors to make sure only those most responsible are charged.
It’s far too broad of a definition, in my opinion. And it’s too open to corruption and interpretation. If we were to enact something similar here, those details would need to change.
Because the definition is so broad, it’s been used to go after members of regular corporations, like FIFA and a healthcare provider. Whether or not those people deserved to be charged, it goes way beyond the intended scope of the law.
Interesting, thanks for the reply!
It also sounds like the leaders can set things up from the beginning to falsely point at a fall guy?
I think the point is to go after the leaders rather than the henchmen who will just be replaced.
Usually it’s not too hard to establish who the leader is, even if it’s not always easy to prove. I imagine that’s another reason they’re allowed to go after any member.
I’m thinking more like having a 2IC acting as the boss, giving orders, all the henchmen think they are the leader when actually he’s got the real leader whispering orders to him in secret.
Maybe I’ve been watching too much TV!
I’ve never heard of that. But if they did it right, I guess we’d never know.
In theory it wouldn’t matter. There are only so many people you can have able to act as the leader. If you took out the 2IC and another took their place so you got them as well, etc. Then you’d likely disrupt the organisation even if you didn’t get the true leader - and one of the 2ICs might sell out the boss for a deal so you’d probably find out about them eventually.
I think it’s probably worth a go given how ineffectual we’ve been…
Certainly worth assessing or experimenting with the constraints/requirements to focus how it can be applied
Yeah, after having this conversation I’ve wondered why parties aren’t promising this.
I think National want to be seen to be tough on crime. If they remove crime then they lose a voterbase.
If Labour do this then it might be seen as a National-type hard on crime move, which could lose voters.