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This is such a non-thing that it hurts to even consider how stupid it is.
But, let’s consider:
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The Super Bowl is a private corporate event; any song may be performed ceremoniously. That’s protected speech.
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Not standing up for the Black National Anthem is whatever. That’s protected speech.
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The Black National Anthem is a colloquial title and has no legal status. That’s protected speech.
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While there is a statute outlying etiquette for performances of the National Anthem, there are no penalties for not adhering. That’s protected speech.
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“America the Beautiful” was also performed and there’s no legal basis for etiquette or participation. This song also has a long history of being performed alongside the Star-Spangled Banner to the point that it’s sometimes referred to as the National Hymn, even though that is a colloquial and non-legal designation. That’s protected speech.
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This is apparently the fourth year that “Lift Every Voice and Sing” has been performed at the Super Bowl. That’s protected speech.
Republicans are anti free speech and always have been. ✅
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Make this movie
Remember they believe in Don’t thread on me. Weird
Nah, they believe in “No Step on Snek”
Especially when it goes against their religion. And they follow the American civic religion
Oh, who are you kidding? Everyone is against mah freeze peach as long as they get to choose what gets said.
Not how that works buddy
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Your statement presupposes that MAGAs are mad because this is somehow illegal. How did you come to such a conclusion?
They didn’t, at least not in what I read.
They’re just outlining how stupid the argument is.
They made 6 statements, each ending with “that’s protected speech”, referred to a “legal basis” and “legal status”, and mentioned that the SuperbOwl was a private event, as if someone was implying otherwise. Not sure how else you interpret that but please share if you have another perspective.
E: LOL you people are literally delusional. Zero objectivity.
All of those six statements were predicated with “This is such a non-thing that it hurts to even consider how stupid it is.“
Ergo, let’s not make it a thing…
And then they immediately “made it a thing” by writing out a strawman argument, which I addressed. I don’t understand where the confusion is coming from.
No, they didn’t. The point that were made all stated that everything’s protected by free speech. No one here is upset about the Black National Anthem being sung, you’re just trying to stir up shit. Ergo, DON’T MAKE IT A THING.
No, they didn’t.
Yes. They did.
The point that were made all stated that everything’s protected by free speech.
Yes, I got that. My point (once again) is no one thinks it is illegal, which makes the argument it a strawman (ie: arguing against a point no one is making).
No one here is upset about the Black National Anthem being sung
Oh look, another strawman.
Ergo, DON’T MAKE IT A THING.
I’m really not sure what this is supposed to mean in this context. I didn’t “make it a thing”. It was “made a thing” by whoever decided to sing it, the people who were upset by it, the article that was published, and the person replying to the article before I even knew it took place.
You don’t know what a straw man argument is do you?
Of course I do. I’ve already explained it elsewhere. It’s when someone (like the person I replied to) fabricates a fallacious argument their opposition supposedly holds (like the idea that singing a particular song is illegal) and then tries to tear down the argument they themselves fabricated as evidence that their opposition is wrong.
This is such a non-thing that it hurts to even consider how stupid it is.
You missed statement 0.
No. I didn’t.
Oh okay so you chose to ignore it and draw your own conclusions at what point they were making, got it.
Once again, no, I did not.
In this context “that’s protected speech” means roughly, “STFU maga, nothing you can do about it, and you have no basis for your tantum.”
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No I did.
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No I really did
that adjective isn’t used figuratively
Yes. It is. All the time.
The larger context of why anyone is talking about what is sung at the Super Bowl should have been enough of a set up, but apparently not.
This entire stunt is predicated on the right’s frustration that they couldn’t do anything about black athletes and allies being disrespectful during the National Anthem (a legally defined song with etiquette spelled out in the US legal code), which is protected speech.
Now, in my opinion, they have a Super Bowl to posture about eight months before a presidential election. They want sound bites and over-the-top reactions so that they can paint themselves the victims of a hypocritical, leftist, anti-freedom conspiratorial media machine. This part of that “projection” plank in the modern GOP.
My original post was simply outlining that no matter how you slice it, there is nothing to be mad about them “protesting” the Black National Anthem. I added in a rhetorical refrain to drive home the point while beating a dead horse for effect.
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Thank you
Ah yes “known troll” = someone who disagrees with me. LOL sure bud
Good thing you blocked me.
I don’t think the nfl is what protected speech is about. They’re welcome to be morons.
I never understand this argument from Americans.
Why can’t people be pissed off with what a private company does? Like if there is a sweet company that makes blueberry flavour and it’s the best. If they stop selling it then I can be pissed. The argument “well it’s a private company it can do what it wants” is in no way related to if I get to be pissed at it.
They have freedom to do as they please, but whining about it does about as much as whining about blueberry flavor.
We aren’t saying you can’t be pissed, we are saying it is completely stupid that you are pissed and there is nothing you can do. There are far more things to be worried about in this country. We are eating ourselves alive, life expectancy is dropping, suicide rate and overdose rate is climbing, our jobs are being given to foreign countries and robots, no one owns anything anymore.
Culture and community is absolutely important to a lot of people. In fact it could be very important for happiness.
Maybe people don’t care about monetary things as much as you. Or maybe they care about both. It’s possible to care about everything you said and the superbowl.
The only people not thinking about money are those who are privileged by wealth.
Some of us paid for our own school, car, etc. some had a $100k head start. Willing to bet you are in that second group.
If people care about these things why are so few people talking about it? Why are we whining about flavors and pop stars so much instead?
It’s cool that you don’t have to worry about the future, but some of us want our children to not be slaves
No. My capitalist country paid for most of my education the rest I paid for on a low interest government backed loan. Total came to just over a years median salary.
I used my grandads old car as it was largely worthless until it completely died on me within a year then I bought my own secondhand car. But that was after uni and working for a bit, so I used my own money for that car.
my government gave me a loan at 6.8%. The amount I have paid into it is the same as the original principle amount, I still owe 80% of it because of the interest. I am making 2x the average American and am still on a hamster wheel of the capitalist death cult. I will never own anything at this rate
Yes the poltical system in America is terrible.
But there are more capitalist countries without stupid education loans than with, it’s kinda just you guys. You really need some form of proporional representation.
Well, you can choose the things you care about. Why waste your energy getting upset about something that has zero negative consequences in your life when you could be doing something productive, <s> like arguing on Lemmy? </s>
Exactly we all wasting our time here.
I have no problem, as a concept, with people complaining about things there care about.
Yeah you’re right. I’m out. Have a good night!
Good luck to you.
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My favorite part was how they kept mentioning the sign language interpreters and then never showing them again. Like, give them a picture-in-picture or something. Otherwise, what’s the point?
And just off camera we have sign interpreters. We wont show them but they are there
close-up of lips so the hearing impaired can lip read
Freeze those lips!
My wife said the same thing during the game lol
I’m old enough to remember when shows used to have ASL interpreters in a little window. All the time. But I haven’t seen it much since the 80s.
I imagine widespread adoption of closed captioning has reduced the need for ASL interpreters on TV.
That makes sense.
We switched to closed captions over the course of the 90s. Irl events still use terps but using then on screen is now a specific choice. Usually the only times you’ll see ASL on screen these days is presidential addresses and shows that make a point to cast signers for Deaf characters
I have a question about this, if anybody can help me out. Are Deaf and Hard of Hearing people generally fluent in English (at a similar rate to the general population)? I’ve heard anecdotes about Deaf people who only know ASL, little to no English, but I don’t know how common that actually is. Mainly curious about the US.
I know ofc it’s more complicated than that (ASL isn’t the only sign language used here, and English isn’t the only spoken language, not all Deaf/HH people use sign language, etc.), but I’m just trying to get an idea of the big picture. Like when it comes to TV, are closed captions generally considered ‘accessible’ by the Deaf community?
Apologies if that didn’t make much sense, I had trouble wording it.
So it depends a lot on age, location, and severity of hearing loss. First Deaf and deaf aren’t the same thing. Capital D Deaf means culturally Deaf regardless of severity of hearing loss. Someone can be hard of hearing and Deaf and someone who hears worse may not be. Hoh and deaf people who aren’t Deaf usually are either late deafened or were mainstreamed (basically given hearing aids and usually not taught sign). Little d deaf implies hearing loss severe enough that it would require yelling to have an unaided verbal conversation (not precise but it’s generally accurate).
So for starters, if you grew up with the internet you’re probably fluent in written language, probably English. Unless you’re from a time and place where hearing people weren’t literate you’re probably literate as a deaf person. And to my knowledge there are no widely adopted sign language written forms beyond all caps words in language common to area with sign syntax. That’s why when you see Deaf people struggling with verbal languages it’s usually issues of spelling or syntax not vocabulary. But there’s also fingerspelling. There are a lot more words than signs. Common words quickly get a sign, but shit you don’t have to express face to face often to another Deaf person like professional jargon, you just spell it out.
But think about the 80s-90s in America. People who didn’t learn to read in school were still around. Especially if the system didn’t really care and their parents were illiterate. Even now there are people who can read but not at speaking speed. Captions are fine now, it’s like English to the Dutch. You’ve been using it in entertainment at least partly your whole life. But when it was a language someone half bothered to teach you at ten not so much
Thank you for your response!
Wow, yeah, I hadn’t even considered what difference the internet would have made. Way too often I forget to think about history in its greater context.
And to my knowledge there are no widely adopted sign language written forms beyond all caps words in language common to area with sign syntax.
Not as far as I know, either. About a year ago I learned about a ministry group that translated the entire Christian bible into ASL and made an app where you could watch the videos. I don’t remember the name, but it was cool to learn about. (IIRC, that project was what got me caught up on this question in the first place, lol.)
When you say ‘sign syntax,’ does that mean the same thing as gloss? For example:
YESTERDAY, HOME IX-me STAYI see it used all the time as a tool for English -> ASL students (of which I am one, lol), but it’s never crossed my mind to wonder what ways it is (and what ways it isn’t) used by the Deaf.
If you don’t mind me asking, are you or someone in your life Deaf? Just curious, since it sounds like you’re more informed than the Average Joe. :)
Yeah there’s a thing where Christians like for their texts to be in every language. It’s probably a lot more of that than anything. ASL was developed by nuns IIRC. It’s definitely not like Plains Sign Language which began as a trade language and eventually developed for the deaf. For as long as modern people of European descent have had sign language we’ve had access to Jesus in it.
I’d give more context but my asl is shit. I don’t really sign beyond insulting the hearing. I’m third generation mainstreamed. (Yeah my great grandparents, grandparents, and parents were all convinced not to teach their children sign language by the experts of the time). And yeah that more or less answers two paragraphs. I’ve been wearing hearing aids since childhood and my mom, grandma, and sister all also have my degenerative hearing loss.
I grew up with captions on the tv in the 90s except when my father was watching with us (he hates captions, and I’ll acknowledge they did suck 25 years ago, just less than not hearing sucked). And in early adulthood I went on a journey of self discovery and community discovery of embracing my deafness but I still need to find the time and energy to commit to asl learning
Yeah there’s a thing where Christians like for their texts to be in every language. It’s probably a lot more of that than anything. ASL was developed by nuns IIRC. It’s definitely not like Plains Sign Language which began as a trade language and eventually developed for the deaf. For as long as modern people of European descent have had sign language we’ve had access to Jesus in it.
I’d give more context but my asl is shit. I don’t really sign beyond insulting the hearing. I’m third generation mainstreamed. (Yeah my great grandparents, grandparents, and parents were all convinced not to teach their children sign language by the experts of the time). And yeah that more or less answers two paragraphs. I’ve been wearing hearing aids since childhood and my mom, grandma, and sister all also have my degenerative hearing loss.
Garrett Morris was the best sign interpreter of all time.
Agreed.
For the uninitiated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwSh0dAaqIA
I imagine those are more for people in the stadium. The people watching it on TV have closed captioning.
What doesn’t send them into a meltdown? It’s almost like they’re the things that melt easily that they’re so fond of calling everyone else.
Just like their bigoted positions on LGBTQ+ rights. Like, nobody is forcing you to identify as one. It’s literally as respecting someone to be called John instead of Johnathan.
Then righties go, “bUT I dONt lIkE tHaT nAMe!”
So much for individual freedumb I guess.
They got upset by an energy savings change on Xbox, lmao
Old enough to remember when they went berserk over florescent light bulbs.
Old enough to remember when they lost their minds, because Obama suggested they check their tire pressure.
CFLs were kinda shit tho. I’m so happy LED became standard.
LEDs are definitely an improvement on an improvement. But I’ll never get why people got angry at bulbs that were cooler, brighter, and cheaper by life expectancy than their old filament bulb counterparts.
Reactance. They didn’t feel like they had a choice. CFLs were different and buzzy and the color was off.
Reactance. They didn’t feel like they had a choice.
Only because they weren’t a sizable market share.
CFLs were different and buzzy and the color was off.
Engineering problems that were solved within a few iterations. But by then LEDs that were better and cheaper were hitting the market and the argument became moot.
Now my biggest problem with modern light bulbs is the absurd market-ups relative to what they cost everywhere else on the planet.
The mercury was bad
Cheeses? Do they melt like various cheeses? Mmmm cheeses.
That would at least explain the saggy orange thing they worship. lol
Damn you its time for brie.
They don’t call America a melting pot for nothing ;)
“I’m STILL not standing for this divisive garbage. One nation. One anthem.”
But kneeling during the national anthem was such utter disrespect that players should be fired?
God. These people are insufferable.
Let’s not forget that Kap got that suggestion from a Soldier. These asshats don’t bother with context or nuance, it’s all just too woke
Bruh I got into such an intense argument with my parents because I defended the BLM protests. They came at me hardcore for “violence” and “destruction of property”. I asked them what the hell protestors were supposed to do to draw attention to their cause, and they told me that they would have respected a “peaceful protest”.
I then pointed out the fact that Colin Kaepernick’s career still hasn’t recovered, and that they themselves haven’t watched an NFL game since then…so no, they wouldn’t. My dad then of course whipped out his favorite “insult”: “Fucking Liberal”, and then proceeded to tell me that I have no respect for the flag.
The inability for them to think critically is absolutely astounding.
Family is the worst when it comes to this stuff. Mine is all military, it is fucking WILD to me to hear all the old grunts who’d kill a commie for being red back when we were in a Cold War…now they’re telling me why this orange guy says the truth. Propaganda is a hell of a drug
It’s really wild to me, tbh. The military is what made me as Progressive as I am. My father served as well during Desert Storm in the USMC. He traveled around too. Yet I grew up in an extremely conservative household.
I wonder what yours says when trying to reconcile their own cognitive dissonance. It wasn’t that long ago that we were actively against Russia FFS,
My dad did 4 in the navy and got out chillin on ships and seeing some places, I haven’t talked to him for a long time cause he burned that bridge in other traditional shitty family ways,. Over covid out of the blue he commented on Facebook on one of my posts that protestors aren’t a problem if we shoot them, and that I’m “a pussy lib who hates America.”
I’m 100% with the VA for injuries sustained in an IED blast. ^(and he knows that)
Bruh, I am so fucking sorry that not only does your father seem uncaring in general (going off the “traditional shitty family ways” comment), but the fact that he completely disregarded the very real sacrifice you endured for the United States in general sounds like the most unbelievably frustrating and demoralizing thing ever. I’ve been fortunate enough to never deploy to a combat zone (all of my deployments have been to friendly zones), and I cannot imagine what you’ve been through, and how you’re contending with a family member disregarding it. I hope you have all the support in the world my dude!
They came at me hardcore for “violence” and “destruction of property”.
Same as it ever was.
Nobody question how much of that damage was caused by squad cars plowing through pedestrian traffic and beanbag rounds crashing through store fronts. Nobody ask why there’s a cop’s night stick protruding from your windshield.
Its those damned violent extremist protesters, I tell you.
proceeded to tell me that I have no respect for the flag
Hey, listen. Maybe if the price of toilet paper hadn’t risen so quickly, you’d be right. But I respect the shit out of some cheap disposable material when I’m in a tight spot.
Kapernick’s day has long passed because of this. But I think the base issue was that he wasn’t good enough as a player to get away with it. For example: Mahomes would get a pass.
The NFL is replete with examples of them turning a blind eye to a player’s actions IF they are good enough. See: DUI and domestic abuse cases against players. Like say Deshaun Watson…
The inability for them to think critically is absolutely astounding.
They’re coming from an emotional place. They feel things and scramble for words to express it. You can’t use facts with someone who doesn’t care about them. It’s all emotion.
I’ve made that same argument so many times. Weaselly maga jackasses can’t even stay consistent with their own tortured logic.
It sounds like they just want to be mad at black people
But kneeling during the national anthem was such utter disrespect that players should be fired?
Yeah, cause that was the good Christian White People anthem, not the evil BLM Antifa Communist Hate-American anthem.
Every complaint they make has a big old exception hole that they jump through.
She forgot the “ein Volk and ein Fürer” bit of the phrase. I’m sure it was just a minor oversight.
Doesn’t take much to rile up the Trumpanzees.
There are so many snowflakes that you can trigger an avalanche by sneezing.
I mean really, what at this point won’t send a dumb ass MAGA person into toddler tantrum territory?
Trump becoming dictator?
Hope they like potatoes
That implies socialism. They hate that. Instead, they get nothing and have to fight multi-million dollar corporations for land to make potatoes or pay exorbitant amounts at stores for one.
Which, uhh, now that I type it, we’re not quite there yet but it doesn’t sound that far off from where we’re at
Fucking snowflakes lmao
Didn’t they throw a fit about this last year too?
Snowflakes gonna snowflake
broflake conservatives gonna cry and whine about literally everything.
FUCK MAGA. Every single one of them can fuck right off. They are babies, snowflakes, mouth breathing morons. They can’t think for themselves, they have to be told how to feel. I wish these lemmings would walk out into the ocean and feed the sharks.
You forgot racist too
They said MAGA already
That’s a big one too.
They want to be Russia so bad airdrop them over Russia. 🤷
No chutes though, save the tax dollars.
They DO hate federal spending.
They’re worthless traitor filth. A waste of carbon.
The sharks don’t want 'em. 🤮
Hey now, maybe don’t insult the lemmings on Lemmy?
People on Lemmy are just as bad.
what is this from?
My nightmares
Megg Mogg and Owl by Simon Hansellman. I think that panel is from the covid comics they made for Instagram but I don’t really remember. That series was called Crisis Zone.
Looks like an excellent setup for a new Dimension 20 season.
I first heard Lift Every Voice and Sing in high school (which was back in the 90s, I’m old) and I liked it, much better than the official national anthem. It acknowledges the atrocities of the past while being hopeful of the future instead of the usual “rah rah our country is the greatest” crap.
Too much religion at the end for my taste, but I really like the rest of it.
Agreed, but since there are multiple verses, the last one can simply be omitted according to preference.
But is it styled after a British drinking song? That’s the best thing about the current anthem.
Not even a very good one, at that!
Explain to them that the American national anthem doesn’t represent black Americans because when that song was written black Americans were not free. The American national anthem was a lie then and is a lie now. Land of the free? Back then we had millions of slaves. And now we have millions of slaves.
What, to the American slave, is your 4th of July? I answer: a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciations of tyrants, brass fronted impudence; your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade, and solemnity, are, to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy—a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices, more shocking and bloody, than are the people of these United States, at this very hour.
-Frederick Douglas, 4th of July speech
It’s not just that. Look up the subsequent verses of the Star Spangled Banner.
It’s about rounding up “fugitive” runaway slaves. It’s why no one discusses the latter verses.
It’s not just that. Look up the subsequent verses of the Star Spangled Banner.
It’s about rounding up “fugitive” runaway slaves. It’s why no one discusses the latter verses.
This is factually incorrect. The Star-Spangled Banner is about the War of 1812. The first stanza actually ends on a question, which is answered in the second stanza. I actually really like the first two stanzas together. The poetry in the second is beautiful.
O say can you see, by the dawn’s early light,
What so proudly we hail’d at the twilight’s last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight
O’er the ramparts we watch’d were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket’s red glare, the bomb bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there,
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep
Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream,
'Tis the star-spangled banner - O long may it wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!The only stanza that mentions slaves is the third. It says:
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.Here the “band who so vauntingly swore” is referring to the British. The “Hireling” refers to Hessian mercenaries hired by the British, and “slave” refers to American slaves who (justifiably) defected to fight for the British, having been offered their freedom in exchange. When the British fled they abandoned those slaves and mercenaries to “the terror of flight and the gloom of the grave.” Problematic certainly, but not about rounding up runaway slaves.
Finally we get the fourth stanza:
O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
Between their lov’d home and the war’s desolation!
Blest with vict’ry and peace may the heav’n rescued land
Praise the power that hath made and preserv’d us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto - “In God is our trust,”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.The person who wrote the anthem, Francis Scott Key, was indeed a slave owner, but was a complicated individual. He spoke out against slavery, and actually gave free legal representation to some slaves seeking freedom. That said, he also represented some owners of runaway slaves. Like I said, complicated individual (as are many people who live in times with ethics we rightly find abhorrent).
All people are complicated. The word you’re looking for for Key is “hypocrite”.
Former Arizona Senate candidate Kari Lake responded to a picture showing her sitting down during a performance of the hymn at last year’s Super Bowl. Lake said on X, formerly Twitter, on Sunday: “I’m STILL not standing for this divisive garbage. One nation. One anthem.”
If she really thought that she’d stand the fuck up.
Oh, so if she wasn’t standing, was she kneeling then? Is it ok for them to kneel during the national anthem now?
“Me either!!!”, added Greg Abbott
I bet none of these dingbats complained when we were playing “God Bless America” everywhere after 9/11. MAGA shouldn’t be the gatekeepers of patriotism.
They aren’t. They think they are patriots, but in fact they are just nationalists. Nationalism is a gross perversion of patriotism. Under the guise of loving their country, it really just stands for hating everyone else.
Who called it Black National Anthem? Do they say “please rise for the black national anthem”?
edit: NAACP dubbed it that in 1917
Yeah MAGA don’t word so good. They heard that somewhere and that’s all they can think about now.
The song is awesome, and honestly I think it’s amazing that something as public as the Super Bowl is using their platform to give it a voice, but the name is unfortunately divisive.
