They get shit on a lot here. Why? What do they do and how is that different from other companies that offer similar services?
What I know of them: they offer DDS brute force/spam protection for websites.
They get shit on a lot here. Why? What do they do and how is that different from other companies that offer similar services?
What I know of them: they offer DDS brute force/spam protection for websites.
A measured response to be sure. Thanks for writing it up. I’m definitely not the one who’s going to tell you for sure what CloudFlare should or should not do in this case or any other cases. It’s a tricky business to be in in terms of making those decisions. That said, I do think there is a line to be drawn SOMEWHERE, and because of this they would eventually need to deplatform something. If that signals to the regimes of the world that Cloudflare can be influenced than so be it, but to me (and I think a lot of the people who were going after Cloudflare during this time), Nazi’s (and those sites you mentioned, e.g. Kiwi Farms) are easy to draw lines for. Good thing I’m just a dude on Lemmy and not a high powered CF exec hah!
You’re welcome, and thanks for the reply!
I think drawing the line at nazis is a good idea in theory, but a very difficult one to implement in practice. For example:
This is all pretty complicated, and I’ve barely scratched the surface.
The revised line they drew with Kiwi Farms (as well as the “we follow US law” line they already had) is a much simpler one that’s still morally defensible:
One word you used stuck out to me: “deplatform.” I wouldn’t call this deplatforming. I’m used to seeing that word used to refer to someone being removed from social media, having their YouTube channel shut down, having their podcast removed from Spotify, etc… I mentioned this in another comment on this post, but those situations are fundamentally different, and it follows that the criteria for doing so should be different. In that other comment I also talked a bit about why I think free speech is infringed if you can’t publish a website, but isn’t infringed if you can’t create a Facebook account.
You also might find this Wired article interesting - it has quotes from and background about the CEO of Cloudflare related to the TDS’s removal, some insight into the internal company dialogue when that was all ongoing, etc…
I’m taking a bit more literal interpretation of “de-platform”, which I agree is not the way it has been traditionally used. In my case, if a platform takes you down, you were just de-platformed =). As for the question of “what is a nazi?”, 100% agree in terms of “where is the line”. Yes, there are some very obvious cases that I think 100% of people would identify in the same way, but there is undoubtedly that pesky ol’ gray area (which as your bulleted list makes clear is a non-trivially large area) where things start to get a little more subjective. Sure, it’d be great if companies (like CloudFlare) smell-tested things in the same way I do haha but outside of that, it is no doubt difficult to define.