This guy Cruz had a horrible life, there’s no doubt. But that doesn’t excuse his going out and committing mass murder. The people he killed did not make his life the misery that is was, and killing them only brings even more misery and murder into the world. There is no “fantastic” outcome. No mass murderer has ever caused a sea-change of how things are, as a result of the murder they commit.
The guy who shot up all those black people at the Tops Market in Buffalo - did he really think killing random black people, would stop black people from existing? Or prevent people from supporting black people? Mass murder never has the results these killers seem to think it will.
And how despicable to say that kids should be armed. No “Good kid” would ever murder another kid, whether that kid is good or bad. The minute you kill someone you’ve become a corrupt monster without redemption. GUNS ARE THE PROBLEM, they are NEVER the solution.
But it takes intelligence and maturity to see that. I am 65 years old. If you aren’t, I don’t expect you to understand and get why guns are so bad. So don’t bother to reply if you’re not old enough to get what I’m saying, it’s a waste of your time and mine also.
if it “excused” it, we’d say “oh, okay, on that case that’s fair. no further action needed”
what this does is explain it. and with the insight offered by this explanation, we can say, “oh, yes, I can see how this could have come about. now I know what to look for/do to prevent similar tragedies in future”
I think you missed the point here. This shooter had no opportunities prested to him. He wasn’t smart enough or connected enough to ever be comfortable, let alone actually do something noteworthy. Being on the news for a day or two is the only “fantasy” he could possibly achieve. It not about causing a sea-change, it’s just about getting noticed.
He wasn’t born a monster, but violence was the only obvious route to having any impact on his surroundings.
American society loves guns and hates helping poor people, this is what we get.
The guy who shot up all those black people at the Tops Market in Buffalo - did he really think killing random black people, would stop black people from existing?
No, he probably didn’t think it would stop black people from existing. Instead, he probably thought that he had no feasible options to do so, and if he were able to do anything as an individual, then it would be carrying out a mass shooting and trying to “make an impact.” These “manifesto” shooters are typically immersed in some kind of online group that promises to applaud and echo the violent behavior. Regardless, the outcome is awful.
EDIT: From an excerpt on the Buffalo shooter’s manifesto:
The author also expressed support for [other] far-right mass shooters
As much as 57% of the text-based ideological sections were plagiarized
It’s about being isolated from the real world, whether physically, mentally, or both, and then being sucked into a private group that idolizes bigotry/racism, violence, and other mass murderers.
“Hey man, you wanna be a star/take this, and show them who you are/make them pay in, blood for every scar/there’s no saving you, from the monster you are” - Bulletproof by From Ashes to New
No mass murderer has ever caused a sea-change of how things are, as a result of the murder they commit … Mass murder never has the results these killers seem to think it will.
And what results are those? I can’t speak for any spree killers, but I’ve never gotten the impression that they believed their killings would actually change anything. They typically seem to be acting purely out of revenge, albeit misplaced.
And how despicable to say that kids should be armed.
Who said that? The OP on 4 Chan didn’t. I haven’t seen anyone in these comments say that.
GUNS ARE THE PROBLEM, they are NEVER the solution.
Gun control would be an effective way to reduce gun violence, and on its own that’s a credible argument. But guns literally are not the problem. The problem is the fact that people want to lash out at society and the societal/governmental forces that push them there. I’m not saying guns are good or not to control them, just don’t forget you’re treating a symptom rather than the root problem. If we were to only pass gun control these problems will continue to fester. Again, I’m not saying don’t do it.
I am 65 years old. If you aren’t, I don’t expect you to understand
Most of the people in power and in the electorate who have been stonewalling gun control as well as any kind of social welfare programs that could prevent mass killings are older than 65. It is old indifference, or even contempt, that’s holding us back, not young ignorance.
This guy Cruz had a horrible life, there’s no doubt. But that doesn’t excuse his going out and committing mass murder. The people he killed did not make his life the misery that is was, and killing them only brings even more misery and murder into the world. There is no “fantastic” outcome. No mass murderer has ever caused a sea-change of how things are, as a result of the murder they commit.
The guy who shot up all those black people at the Tops Market in Buffalo - did he really think killing random black people, would stop black people from existing? Or prevent people from supporting black people? Mass murder never has the results these killers seem to think it will.
And how despicable to say that kids should be armed. No “Good kid” would ever murder another kid, whether that kid is good or bad. The minute you kill someone you’ve become a corrupt monster without redemption. GUNS ARE THE PROBLEM, they are NEVER the solution.
But it takes intelligence and maturity to see that. I am 65 years old. If you aren’t, I don’t expect you to understand and get why guns are so bad. So don’t bother to reply if you’re not old enough to get what I’m saying, it’s a waste of your time and mine also.
“Excuse” isn’t what matters, only address, prevent, protect.
People make the same mistake without say child abuse. Doubling down on punishments without addressing the real harms of over punishing.
if it “excused” it, we’d say “oh, okay, on that case that’s fair. no further action needed”
what this does is explain it. and with the insight offered by this explanation, we can say, “oh, yes, I can see how this could have come about. now I know what to look for/do to prevent similar tragedies in future”
I think you missed the point here. This shooter had no opportunities prested to him. He wasn’t smart enough or connected enough to ever be comfortable, let alone actually do something noteworthy. Being on the news for a day or two is the only “fantasy” he could possibly achieve. It not about causing a sea-change, it’s just about getting noticed.
He wasn’t born a monster, but violence was the only obvious route to having any impact on his surroundings.
American society loves guns and hates helping poor people, this is what we get.
Maybe he was just angry, too. Maybe he just wanted to express that anger and be heard for once.
Wasting time is what I’m here for. Did you expect that gatekeeping responses to your own post would work?
Sounds like thinking is not something that he’s interested in doing.
The exception that proves the rule being Martin Bryant at Port Arthur.
My fellow Americans just don’t give a shit about the death toll.
It’s not positive or what the shooters intended but I think Columbine had a significant cultural impact.
No, he probably didn’t think it would stop black people from existing. Instead, he probably thought that he had no feasible options to do so, and if he were able to do anything as an individual, then it would be carrying out a mass shooting and trying to “make an impact.” These “manifesto” shooters are typically immersed in some kind of online group that promises to applaud and echo the violent behavior. Regardless, the outcome is awful.
EDIT: From an excerpt on the Buffalo shooter’s manifesto:
It’s about being isolated from the real world, whether physically, mentally, or both, and then being sucked into a private group that idolizes bigotry/racism, violence, and other mass murderers.
History is full of examples of people who murdered hundreds or thousands of people and not only got away with it, but became heroes for it.
Even recently, the killer of Shinzo Abe seems to have succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.
Violence is wrong, of course, but let’s not pretend that it never works.
“I’m older, so I’m right”
“Hey man, you wanna be a star/take this, and show them who you are/make them pay in, blood for every scar/there’s no saving you, from the monster you are” - Bulletproof by From Ashes to New
Never skip your social studies classes, kids
Fantastic != Good
And what results are those? I can’t speak for any spree killers, but I’ve never gotten the impression that they believed their killings would actually change anything. They typically seem to be acting purely out of revenge, albeit misplaced.
Who said that? The OP on 4 Chan didn’t. I haven’t seen anyone in these comments say that.
Gun control would be an effective way to reduce gun violence, and on its own that’s a credible argument. But guns literally are not the problem. The problem is the fact that people want to lash out at society and the societal/governmental forces that push them there. I’m not saying guns are good or not to control them, just don’t forget you’re treating a symptom rather than the root problem. If we were to only pass gun control these problems will continue to fester. Again, I’m not saying don’t do it.
Most of the people in power and in the electorate who have been stonewalling gun control as well as any kind of social welfare programs that could prevent mass killings are older than 65. It is old indifference, or even contempt, that’s holding us back, not young ignorance.