Things might be different by now, but when I was researching this I decided on the Yale x Nest.
It’s more secure than a keyed lock in the following ways:
- Can’t be picked (no physical keyhole).
- Codes can be revoked or time-gated (for example, you can set the dog walker’s code to work only at the time of day they’re expected to come by).
- Guest codes can be set to provide real-time notifications when used.
- The lock keeps a detailed log of every time it’s used.
- The lock can be set to automatically lock the door after a certain amount of time.
It’s less secure than a physical traditional lock in the following ways:
- Compromise of a keycode isn’t as obvious as losing a key, so you might not change a compromised keycode the same way you might change a lost key.
- People can theoretically see a code being punched in, or intercept compromised communications to use it.
- Compromised app or login could be used to assign new codes or remotely unlock
It’s basically the same level of security in the following ways:
- The deadbolt can still be defeated with the same physical weaknesses that a typical deadbolt has: blunt force, cutting with a saw, etc.
- The windows and doors are probably just generally weak around your house, to where a determined burglar can get in no matter what lock you use.
- Works like normal without power or network connection (just can’t be remotely unlocked or reprogrammed to add/revoke codes if not online)
Overall, I’d say it’s more secure against real-world risk, where the weakest link tends to be the people you share your keys with.
Some smart locks are vulnerable to being manipulated with a magnet, if they’re poorly designed, since someone can just manipulate the motor from outside.
I’ve seen it for keypads that have to send a signal to an actuator located elsewhere, but I think the typical in-door deadbolt (where the keypad is mere millimeters from the motor itself) wouldn’t have the form factor leaving the connection as exposed to a magnet inducing a current that would actually actuate the motor.
Most of LPL’s videos on smart locks just defeat the mechanical backup cylinder, anyway. I’d love to see him take on the specific Yale x Nest model I have, though.
But since smart locks generally also have a traditional mechanical mechanism for backup, aren’t they inherently always less secure than a traditional lock since you can find the weakest link in either of the two mechanisms?
Usually yes, but this person is saying theirs does not have a physical keyhole.
Yup. The backup for battery failure on this model is that the bottom of the plate can accept power from the pins of a 9V battery, held there just long enough to punch in the code.
Ask the lockpicking lawyer. He regularly opens them on YouTube. On the other hand, he opens about anything. But those “smart” locks usually have additional weaknesses.
It’s why I went with an inside only smart lock (I have an August that’s been running like a champ for half a decade). A door lock is a deterrent in the first place, and I don’t expect it to ever stop someone sufficiently motivated. Hell, I broke through an exterior door by accident when I was a young teen - haven’t trusted them since.
However, if some cheat came out (like some of LPL’s “just hold a powerful magnet” locks) I’d rather not have an obvious smart lock that can be picked out from the street.
Yep. As soon as you consider a lock, look up whether the LPL had it done, and how he rated it.
Well, this is cool. Thanks!
They have a regular backup cylinder that has all the vulnerabilities of a regular lock.
On top of that they have a bunch of electronics that can be vulnerable.
I can’t see how it would be possible for them to be more secure unless you’re someone who leaves their keys around a lot and a smart lock would let you not have a key on you.
They don’t have to have a backup cylinder. The most common kind (Yale doorman) where I live doesn’t have one. If the Internal battery goes out you can plug in a 9V battery from the outside to power it.
Even worse, quite often those backup locks are very cheap
Thieves don’t pick locks or hack them. You mostly want to protect against brute force.
I worked for a company that designed home security devices for a few years… Pretty much everyone i talked to agreed there is only 1 actually good security device that is an effective deterrent. Its called “Large Scary Dog”. Every other device is there just to notify you that all your shit is soon to be or already gone.
On the other hand, these digital locks, while not any safer, are much more convenient. I am all in on not having to carry keys and instead have a code to enter or some other easy access.
Ive always wondered what happens if the battery dies, do you still need to carry a key in case that happens
A few have external terminals to charge them when they die.
I have a 9v battery stashed in a flower pot next to my door for when it happens.
I hope there is a replacement replacement. Life deserves recursion.
Usually there is a warning that the battery is dying well ahead of it actually being dead. One that can send notifications will ping your phone with a low battery message. Others have audible warnings. You unlock it and then it starts beeping at you. It keeps doing that until you either change the batteries or it eventually dies. But you have to do a lot of ignoring for it to die on you. Many do have key backups too though. Just in case
There are ones like August that only add the smart lock on one side and retain the old hardware on the outside. If the battery runs out you just gotta use your key like a plebian. It warns you ahead of time it’s low though and I’ve never had it fail in the half decade I’ve had it.
Most dogs are fine if you just carry treats and act polite. I’ve seen plenty of dogs just let intruders in because they were kind to them.
So…you were the intruder, right?
intrudes upon this conversation
…yep.
Every one of the locks pictured have a traditional lock as a backup. Therefore, none of those smartlocks could ever be more secure. Even if the smart parts were 100% flawless, the lock will have all the weaknesses of a traditional door lock because one is included as a backup.
If you were to spend an equal cost on a lock, you will get more security from the traditional lock because all the budget can be spent on the lock instead of split between the lock and the electronics.
But how valuable is the security of the lock anyway? The weakest part of your home is the windows. If someone wanted to break into your house they can break your windows and climb through regardless what lock you have on the front door.
There is a movie from 1992 with Robert Redford, “Sneakers”. It is about a team of hackers, in a scene they face a door with an unexpected smart lock and find the right strategy, just kick the f* door.
But how valuable is the security of the lock anyway? The weakest part of your home is the windows. If someone wanted to break into your house they can break your windows and climb through regardless what lock you have on the front door.
Not so much in many apartments.
Generally not allowed to change the locks in an apartment anyways
Condos are a thing.
You can tell so much about your landlord if they make a big deal about this.
What are you talking about “every lock pictured”? There are two pictured that are a keypad and a 9-volt battery terminal.
A smart lock with a keyhole is never going to be more secure than a standard key lock as it is a standard key lock. Now that being said if the door will let you know every time its opened you could possibly head something off
I got a smart lock after realizing that we would simply forget to lock the front door sometimes since we typically leave via the garage. It’s connected to Home Assistant and now will lock automatically if no one is home.
Technically, I know that a smart lock is less secure, but in most real world scenarios, knowing that the lock will be locked when we are not home, on top of being notified if it becomes unlocked, I’d argue that it’s more secure now than when I had a dumb lock.
I know it sounds crazy but what I would really like is a smart lock built into the wall and wired up to electric and the bolt would go into a hollow in the door. Sorta reverse of a standard door lock. Problem is since its not standard it would be way more expensive. Its like something I would do if I was rich enough for money to not be an issue.
Any person that specializes in IT will know that most of these smart locks/security measures are bullshit and traditional methods are much better.
Let’s be frank, traditional locks exist to keep honest people honest. It’s trivial to learn how to pick locks, there are YouTube channels dedicated to exactly that, and the tools can be purchased for very little upfront cash.
There is no such thing as a foolproof unpickable locks. Any lock that is designed to be opened will have vulnerabilities associated with it that can be exploited by somebody who knows how.
That said, smart locks are probably not much worse off in that regard. I think you can still use a manual key with some models, so that’s not really adding security, but rather convenience. For the ones that are 100% digital, the issue is just shifted to technical knowledge of the lock software and not the mechanical workings.
I’d say they aren’t any more or less secure, just another option that a determined thief can get past, either through skill or brute force if necessary.
There is at least the possibility to get a good traditional lock that is trusted by organisations that value security and has the interest in getting security solutions that genuinely defeat intrusion.
Anyways, the general idea should be to have a house lock that is better than your neighbors, and that is sufficient for most purposes.
I’d say the main purpose of any kind of lock (meaning the weakest link all around your house - strong front door won’t help if the kitchen door to the patio is always unlocked) is to be less appealing to burglars than the next house. At least that is how it works in Germany: Burglars drive around in vans, typically in daylight, sometimes walk around houses, looking for opportunities. If they see a cracked window, or an easy to access balcony door without too much exposure, they’ll give it a go. If that balcony door (I lived in a flat with that setting) has a big iron grating installed in front of it, they’ll move on and look for another place to rob, not because they couldn’t maybe find out that the iron grating is not attached very well, but because it looks like too much effort to even invest the time to find out.
Definitely less secure, but way more convenient. Security for residential door locks doesn’t really matter that much though; thieves are unlikely to try to pick your lock or use some smart-device exploit to access your home - they’ll just smash a window.
Security 101 : If it’s convinient for you, it’s convinient for the attacker as well.
Ssh keys are pretty damn convenient.
Agreed, most of home security is to try and make your neighbours a more tempting target than you. The ethical choice is to do it by making your home a bit more difficult to break into though I guess you could “debuff” the neighbours as well 😉
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A dog with a loud bark will always be more effective than any lock or security system. My border collie is a super lovable dog but her bark is designed to scare off wolves. It’s sounds mean and scary. Truly one whose bark is worse than the bite. She hasn’t ever bit a human but she pinned a pit bull that challenged her and gave him a bite to remember.
My late father would say “A lock only keeps an honest man honest”.
If a criminal really wants to break in, they’ll find a way…
Edit: Meant to post that as a top level comment, but whatever LOL!
I feel sorry for my neighbor who has to repeat whatever phrase his smartlock accepts over and over while being locked out of his house.
I got a lock pick set and was pretty happy learning how to pick all the locks in my house. So I ran out to a hardware store to buy more padlocks and some other stuff. Come in the house and noticed I left the bag of padlocks I bought in my car. Go out to my car and noticed I forgot my keys. Head back and my door is locked. Locked out of my house and car. Through the window I can see my lock picking set on the kitchen table, mocking me.
I have decided to never share this story with my wife.
Was it “mellon”?
I know smartlocks have had their share of vulerabilities. I remember 3 or 4 years ago hearing about things such as sending codes un-encrypted over wifi or basing their security on MAC addresses alone. Both are practically a ‘key on top of the doormat’ travesty. THis may have got better. I think the issue is that manufacturers jump at a market without having much knowledge of IT security. Similar to whats happening with the connectivity of cars. The fact that most peeps in IT security(ok, they might lean towards the paranoid) will not have a smart lock on their house is enough for me for the time being.
It depends on your threat vector. In the academic sense they’re less secure but if you often loan out keys they’re more secure because you don’t have to give someone the key. If you often forget to lock the door they’re more secure because you can do it remotely.
Or if you have kids they can’t lose their keys if they just have a pin. And that pin can be changed if they tell it to someone.
In my case, definitely more secure. If I’d given my kids a key, my ex was likely to copy it without my knowledge. With a code, I could tell them to go ahead and give him the code if he pressured them, then just change it.
And I still have a non-electronic deadbolt.
From what I’ve seen? Considerably less secure.
Many of them feature a normal pin-tumbler lock cylinder as a backup in case the electronics fail, and best case scenario it’s going to be as mediocre as any old Kwikset hanging on the peg on the comedy aisle at Lowe’s. So you’re probably still vulnerable to key theft, key duplication, picking, combing, raking, jiggling, etc.
Then there’s the electronics. A surprising number of them rely on either a solenoid to directly operate the latch/bolt, or a relay that energizes a motor to do the same, both of these are vulnerable to attacks by magnets. A stupid number of them are vulnerable to disassembly attacks. There are trace evidence attacks such as looking at the keypad and noticing where all the fingerprints are, there’s just watching you dial the combination…
And the smart phone app driven ones…sure, let’s send a signal that means “I just got home” across the internet. That sounds safe.
Researched a bit into this some time back and I was not convinced.
It would be nice to have a lock I could assign entry codes for different users and still have a physical key as an emergency backup but the obcession with these locks being tied to an app and/or internet discouraged me.
I stayed with purely mechanical locks with complex keys and secondary arms that make the task to break down a door much harder.
Don’t know how it is in other countries but I’ve been to shops where I specifically asked for locks that would give a locksmith a bad time to pick and was shown a few models where the only way to break it was to put a whole cutter to it and cut out the entire drum.
My door lock is a smart lock but I disabled all ability to unlock it remotely with an air gap. It gives me the ability to use the keypad to lock/unlock without any security holes added.
My smart home system knows it’s state too, so I can have it make a chime or alarm if the door is unlocked at certain times. Great for alerting us that our toddler is playing with the door again.
