“With membership at new lows and no electoral wins to their name, it’s time for the Greens to ditch the malignant narcissist who’s presided over its decline.”
Jill Stein is both a terrible candidate and possibly a Russian agent. Even if I do align with much of the green parties stances and I live in a solidly blue state, I would never vote for her out of principle
“given that she herself has received tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from Google, Lockheed Martin, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, and McKinsey.” I don’t see this information on the FEC website. Can anybody actually find this information? I sort this page by Amount, and it doesn’t list these companies. It lists people:
Pretty sure they’re referring to individual donations where those companies are the employer.
They never organize, canvass, campaign… they never put in the work. It’s easy to sit on Twitter all day and disparage the Democratic Party (yes they have many flaws as well) and nothing else.
They’re lazy grifters.
What exactly did Jill Stein do with that $7 million for the recount? She was interviewed by Mehdi Hassan and he kept asking her why she won’t call out Putin when she has no problem calling out Bibi. Yes two things can be true at once. She just couldn’t explain why she refused to call Putin out on his war mongering and genocide.
How does the Green Party suddenly get money around election time when they don’t do shit for the previous four years?
People are asking.
How does the Green Party suddenly get money around election time
That’s - clearly - when they’re doing their best work for their supporter. You thought the ‘green’ wasn’t about greenbacks?
Maybe has something to do with the dinner she had with him.
I only hear about this candidate a month before the election for the last 50 years, how is this mummy still here?
Because of foreign financing to draw votes away from the Democrats.
please, she’s such a fucking bobble-headed, putin-slopping dork.
Green party has been dead since Nader.
Pretending they had a chance in a voting system that can barely support two parties was kinda pitiable. Until we have RCV for federal elections at a minimum, they will never have a shot.
This is a little discussed problem with fptp (along with many others) it gives minor parties perverse incentive to play spoiler, which gives foreign actors an opportunity to find spoilers.
A-fucking-men.
The Green Party should be the RCV party and that should be their main focus. After that then they and any other party would actually stand a chance. Republicans are actively banning RCV from being implemented and Democrats are slow walking it, but we need to keep pushing.
That would mean actually caring about running campaigns for state goverments. State governments are the ones that can (and in Alaska’s case have) implement RCV.
TBH, I don’t see it happening except organically from within the Democratic Party. If enough progressive Democrats get elected, I think it stands a chance to happen in our lifetimes.
Any democrat has a vested interest in first past the post continuing.
This is just not true. Places which are doing RCV are literally state at metro democratic strongholds. Democrats are literally the only ones pushing it.
Democrats are literally the only ones pushing it.
Also Alaska, for some weird reason.
I disagree, which is why I specified the word “progressive.”
Vested interest meaning it benefits them, i doubt you disagree with the current system of only two parties being considered for elections improves the odds of those two parties winning elections
Actually, an RCV system may help the democrats, at least in the short term.
For the last couple of decades, the “spoiler” candidates generally take from the democrats more than the republicans. Last big spoiler third party that screwed the right was Perot that I remember. With RCV, then the ‘fringe’ votes can still be cast and democrats can work toward being the second choice of those hardliners. At least in the short term, it alleviates the need to actually compete for votes with candidates that are going to lose anyway.
Longer term, it may cause a viable third party or more to get some steam (attracting practical candidates that no longer see the need to be a D or R to get votes, the parties generally getting left alone by outside forces that find them not worth weaponizing), but I don’t think the politicians are too concerned on that long a time frame.
What I disagree with is your implication that they will only ever act in their own interests. I do not know that to be true in the future (and neither do you), as not everyone is motivated by money or power. Enough politicians who see it as vital to the health of US democracy, and change will happen.
I’m not proposing that it will, only that it is far from a precluded possibility. As Boomers die out and retire, I have hope for the Millennials and Gen Zers who replace them.
Actually, score voting would be better. IRV (also known as RCV) has been proven to lead to the same 2-party domination and has many disadvantages.
The Green Party should be the RCV party
They are. Holy shit.
That’s all well and good, but useless in any federal race because the federal government does not dictate how the elections/voting are done.
Brings it back around to if you care so damn much, then focus your resources on state governments.
You should reread the elections clause. Congress has authority to regulate elections
It’s right there in the platform.
They have a shot, by joining the Democratic Party. The same way that progressives join liberals, make their voice heard, and let the voters decide.
Or, just here me out, the Democrats adopt ranked choice voting from the Green Party platform, ditch aid to Israel, and make Jill Stein obsolete. I know, I know, it’s crazy. But, it might just work.
Until we have RCV
Whens that?
Depends. How hard are you working on it?
The Green Party is.
Im supporting the leading candidate that has ranked choice voting as part of their platform
No federal office is going to give you RCV.
The logistics of federal elections are the purview of the state governments.
They will if we elect them
And you’re completely aware that won’t work?
Its the only thing that can. Its not happening until then
If you are talking about federal candidates, it is not the only thing that can, and in fact it won’t happen even then because a federal candidate gets zero say in how the elections are done.
San Francisco has had ranked choice voting for years, and the fucking Green party didn’t get it for us lmao
Progressive Democrats like ranked choice voting.
So it won’t work. Okay then, we’re on the same page there.
When Congress votes it into law.
It’s not up to Congress, states decide how to run their elections.
Until they don’t. That’s not a guaranteed feature. As SCOTUS and Conservatives have taught me over the last several years, historical precedent doesn’t mean shit.
Not true when it comes to Congressional races. I did a post a couple days ago about a bill that three Dems just introduced https://lemmy.world/post/19772020
We elect congress
Why is the Green party not focused on congressional candidates then?
Yep. Glad you see the progression.
Step 1:elect people that support ranked choice voting.
I.E. jill stein
jill stein is running for congress?
How can she be elected?
Ive been thinking more and more that the only way forward for the green party may just be to pic a few states and focus on local races. Get control over city councils and some mayoralships. Hell, a green caucus in state houses could actually do some good
This is how the Tea Party and MAGA co-opted the Republicans, and it’s the model progressives should use to move the needle in the Democratic party (and they have, with some success).
If progressives want to see change, progressives need to vote. In every election. General or primary.
Sam Seder has been saying rhis for a decade at this point.
Its how you build a political movement.
Funny, I just heard him bring it up in a clip. Glad I’m not the oblyone thinking this, means I’m not completely crazy. Could a political party operate a community grocery “store” with campaign funds?
The fact that they’re not doing that but just going straight for an unwinnable Presidential election tells you a lot.
They are doing that. They win about 20% of the local elections they run in for council seats, etc. They hold 140 elected positions according to their website.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Green_politicians_who_have_held_office_in_the_United_States
Federal officials
As of 2023, no nominee of the Green Party has been elected to office in the federal government.
State officials
As of 2024, 8 Greens have held state-level office. However, only 3 were elected or re-elected as Greens.
As of 2024, no Greens currently hold state-level office.
Four current Mayors are listed, though only one “ran as green”. Seventeen Greens are in city and county councils.
Here’s their list, if you’re curious.
I post this not to endorse Jill Stein, but rather because I wanted to see the info for myself so that I could understand what they consider an “elected position”.
Thanks
I remember in the late 90s the Green Party in my district was on a roll, culminating in the election of a member to the California State Assembly (one of the highest posts ever held by the Greens in the US). Then came Nader’s presidential bid and its perceived role in the election of Bush, which permanently crippled the legitimacy of the local party. They’re still doing great work with voter guides, legislative analysis, etc.; but they’ll never escape the shadow of Nader and Stein.
I think the only viable path for a third party now is to start a new one from scratch, and disavow presidential bids from the outset.
Yeah, to be relevant they need to win some elections in large cities and state legislatures. That would be the base necessary to start winning congressional seats and then work up from there. Because the Jill Stein narcissism tour every four years is clearly doing more harm than good.
And it would be the best thing in the world for the Dems. They need cogent and real opposition and right now they’re just running against crazies - which is important, but doesn’t do much for establishing an agenda. A functional Green Party would actually help pull the Dems back more to the left.
You can also vote the Democratic primaries, too.
That worked out, suprisingly well, for Sanders. Think about how much change you could affect voting for Sanderses at every level.
The best part of running for a state legislature or congressional position is that they could team with democrats to block the GOP, so unlike the presidential election you aren’t voting against your interest for electing a third party.
Those races are also FPTP so they do risk the same spoiler effect. Maybe it would do for a deep blue area?
I’m searching around and something like CA-12 was 90% Biden. Candidates could split that like five or six ways and still not have any danger of a Repub.
I don’t think there are any state level positions that would accommodate that. Even Vermont is only D+16, so the third party is a larger risk.
There are some parts of the US where they are not first-past-the-post.
- Alaska - uses top 4 primary + ranked choice general
- Maine - uses ranked choice voting
- California & Washington - use a top-two primary
The Greens could effectively run in those places, as well as races where the Democrats aren’t running a candidate.
But when I see them running for local office, they’re basically running to be on the ballot, not mounting a serious effort to win.
Seeing the disrepair the Republicans have left the south in, I wonder if there is room to do a grass roots campaign in more red areas with a focus of charity and community service? “We are here to help. No, we are not Dems” might work in Louisiana or Alabama
I actually think that would work. Campaign on: Charity, Community, and Clean Environment.
If they were a serious political party. But that would require you to believe that they are wildly incompetent and being supported for that incompetence. Rather than they’re doing this intentionally. Not seriously running to win or improve anything. But being a divisive spectacle to destroy solidarity on the left.
Who needs party membership when you have unlimited money cheat code from daddy Putin?
What makes you think a politically irrelevant person like Stein would capture the attention of putin?
Oh hey wow who put that picture here.
And the republican billionaires who think you will spoil races.
https://zeteo.com/p/exclusive-mehdi-interviews-jill-stein?utm_campaign=post
For those that don’t want to give Elon fucking muskrat a click. Fuck Twitter.
Edit: never mind it’s a preview… So fucking important but we need to pay him to see it.
Is there a good article out there with highlights of the interview? I feel like this would merit its own post, it’s an amazing watch and very important to see for those still considering Stein a legitimate option.
Isn’t that like accusing the maggots of killing the corpse?
The opposition research from the Democratic Party says otherwise
Genocidal Democrats are crashing out this election.
If Harris wants to win over Stein voters, this is definitely not the way to do it.
Harris wants to win over Stein voters, this is definitely not the way to do it.
This is true, I’ve already spoken to all 7 of them, they’re mad.
So no thoughts on perennial sorta kinda candidate Stein making the Green Party a laughingstock then? Or the fact that with her campaign only surviving with the help of GOP operatives and Russian propaganda campaigns, she’s actually making it harder to take third party candidates seriously at any level of government?
No thoughts on the democratic party completely capitulating to a reactionary right wing framework on Israel, immigration, and foreign policy? No thoughts on the Biden/Harris administration actively funding a genocide for the past year? No thoughts on Kamala promising to continue allowing Israel to “defend itself”? Blue maga is literally celebrating the endorsement of the architect of the invasion of Iraq. Did the Democratic establishment forget to at least pretend to be an opposition party?
Jill Stein does not know how many Representatives are in the US House of Representatives.
Anyone care to defend that? That the kind of President you want?
I’m voting for Claudia de la Cruz, not that it matters. neither Claudia, Cornel West, or Jill Stein are actively funding a genocide.
neither Claudia, Cornel West, or Jill Stein are actively funding a genocide.
Yes, because none of these people work in the government so no fucking shit.
You’re essentially voting for Donald Trump, just remember that. You can try to rationalize it, but you cannot argue with reality.
If you actually gave a single shit about the Palestinian people (that you suddenly started caring about on an election year, despite the conditions in Gaza being this way for literal decades), then you will do anything to make sure that Donald Trump does not get elected.
If you want a viable third party, you don’t wait until 8 months before an election every 4 years to steal votes from the Democratic party. Until we do away with first past the post and/or the Electoral College, voting for anyone other than one of the two major parties is akin to not voting at all (or in many cases, an active detriment to the Democratic party, which is why it’s always such a no-brainer for Putin. Maximum social discord, minimum cost).
I know that you know this. I just want you to remember it when Trump wins and by February Palestine literally ceases to exist. If you want to see this genocide kicked into high gear all you gotta do is: vote for Donald Trump, vote for a third party, or not vote at all… And then you too can feel like you’re part of the action!
Yeah they are. It’s just in Ukraine, which you don’t give a shit about for some reason.
Oh I give a shit about the working class of Ukraine, thanks for asking. It’s just that Biden/Harris aren’t bypassing Congress multiple times to send $60 billion of my tax dollars to Russia to further their imperialism. But yeah you definitely don’t care about Palestinians, you’ve made that clear. I’m willing to bet you don’t care for the people of Syria, or Libya, or Afghanistan, or Iraq either. I wonder what the common denominator is there. Maybe you just absolutely despise brown Muslims on the opposite end of US imperial conquest.
“blue maga”
Oh, you’re one of those. Figures.
this post is about Stein and the Green party, nobody asked for your literal whataboutism. Shows just how effective geekwithsoul’s comment is that you couldn’t muster a single word in response and instead turned to “b-b-b-but democrats!!!”
That last sentence with ‘blue maga’ says everything about what you support, no surprise all you have are whatabouts.
how many Ds have eaten with Putin personally btw?
Mentioning that the current admin has been actively funding a genocide for a year and that both major parties promise to continue to do so in 2025, isn’t a whataboutism. Sorry to criticize your genocidal queen, I know stopping to consider that brown Muslims are humans too can be very taxing on most Americans.
One, at least.
Do you not know what a state dinner is?
Wow, you found one of the millions of photos of The President of the United States dining with another world leader. Congrats.
What was Jill’s excuse?
She went to an RT party, was investigated by the Senate Intelligence Committee, and excused. Don’t vote for her if you don’t want to. I won’t, because I’m in a swing state. But the dis/mis information and slandering of third parties should be disconcerting for anyone who wants more choices in this duopoly.
RT
So literally the Kremlin’s propaganda arm. Totally normal stuff…
After all, she was a government official at the time, so it’s normal for her to dine with the Russian president. Oh wait, she wasn’t?
Well at least she was a major presidential candidate right? Oh, never more than ~1.4% you say?
Well I’m sure Putin and his oligarch buddies just wanted to meet her because they’re big fans 🙄.
I have a hard time believing any of you Jill Stein shills are actually for real. I really hope you’re not.
What convinced you that the Green Party is a laughingstock and that Stein is responsible?
Or the fact that with her campaign only surviving with the help of GOP operatives and Russian propaganda campaigns, she’s actually making it harder to take third party candidates seriously at any level of government?
Which GOP donors and Russian operatives are you referring to? Donations are a matter of public record. Which ones are from the GOP and Russia?
My man! I just wanted to compliment you on the reserved and good responses. You have a patience not many have. Keep up the good work.
Thanks! I can get a little snarky sometimes but generally assume adding more information to a discussion is more helpful than not. :)
Where are the donations?
You mentioned donations, not me.
Removed by mod
Ahhh yes. And voting dogmatically for the “lesser evil” over and over makes you so morally superior.
In the current 2 party system there is no alternative. An un-serious candidate like stein has no chance to win, no chance to get anything done as she lacks all down ballot support. So calling it dogmatically is nonsense it is realistically. With the razor thin margins, do you really want to run the risk of a trump victory?
I see a lot of anti Stein rhetoric lately I understand the push to not let her drag the ticket from Kamala but I wonder how much is true and how much is news trying to sway my opinion
edit; Imagine asking a reasonable question in 2024 lol
Note that I went to her own platform page and that was enough for me to be a hard pass even if I went worried about Trump and even I never heard anything from anyone about her.
The deal breakers for me were:
- Disband NATO.
- Stop material support of Ukraine
There’s a bit more I find to be problematic, but those are sufficient.
NATO isn’t giving you ranked choice voting and healthcare
On the ranked choice voting, she wouldn’t give you that anyways. Here’s a clue, Alaska has RCV already. The president doesn’t get to pick how the states run their elections. The place to push for RCV is at the state level.
On healthcare, you’d need congress. There’s not even a whiff of that being a possibility, even less than Stein presidency. That’s a general issue with her platform that there’s very little “how” in how she could actually do anything, and much that isn’t even theory under the authority of the federal government, let alone the office of the president.
Also, more directly related to your original point, disbanding NATO and withdrawing support from Ukraine get us exactly 0% closer to either of those goals as well. They just show that Stein is an unserious politician with extremely specific opinions on NATO and Ukraine for reasons I’m sure are unrelated to her funding.
You’re seeing anti-Stein rhetoric lately because it’s a Presidential election year and that’s the only time the Green party tries to be visible.
I’m sure the two or three Green people at the local level believe in the party’s stated platform, but at the higher level it absolutely looks like the party exists only to siphon votes away from the Democratic party.
Stein has been a known Russian asset and Democratic spoiler candidate for about a decade now, being “Green” has never actually had anything to do with her political goals.
I would suggest you do your own research, but she’s run several times, has no real experience or qualifications, and has been shown multiple times to be benefiting (either knowingly or unknowingly) from both GOP operatives and Russian interference.
Personally I fully support third parties - if they do more than just show up as spoilers every four years. Jill Stein has been doing zilch to push the Green Party forward except in presidential election years. And as a result she’s doing more harm to folks who want more options than not.
How much do you hear about the Green Party OTHER than the presidential election? That should tell you quite a bit.
That’s because corporate media has a vested interest in not covering them. Their membership has stayed the same since about 2011
Could it be because they currently exist only as a spoiler party for the presidential election? The media doesn’t have a vested interest in not covering them, that’s republican “fake news” talk. Media LOVES conflict.
It seems that way because the Greens operate on a local and state level between presidential elections, by design:
The success of the 2000 Nader campaign had an ironic backlash among progressives – some on the left faulted Nader and the Green Party for the defeat of Democrat Al Gore. In 2004, the Greens nominated attorney David Cobb for president and labor activist Pat LaMarche for vice president. Cobb, a longtime Green leader, pledged to use the presidential campaign primarily to build the party. His campaign’s goals included increasing Green Party membership, helping local candidates and initiatives, and creating state and local chapters where they did not yet exist.
Cobb also felt that Greens should emphasize the need for Instant Runoff Voting, and that if there were a relatively “progressive” Democratic candidate, most Green resources should be focused on those states where the Electoral College votes are not “in play” (which is most states). He saw this as necessary for Greens to appeal to a broad swath of the population.
The media chooses to not cover the Greens, Libertarians, Constitutionalists, the Working Families Party, or any socialist parties because that would give them credibility and undermine the capitalist controlled two-party message.
I am not defending the Green Party. I will not vote for them. But the narrative that is being pushed to suppress third party support is detrimental to democracy.
It’s because she’s strong on issues that Harris is weak on…especially the ongoing genocide in Gaza. Stein agrees with the majority of the Democrats: we should quit funding the genocide. Harris wants to continue funding it.
