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Not as bad as Saintsbury’s in the UK. They don’t even employ a person to check receipts, scan your recipt and a barrier opens. Though usually it doesn’t scan so people are stood there hands full of shopping bags trying to get the receipt just right so it scans.
Or the sensible people just barge though and set off a silly little alarm.
But if I don’t do a good job at self-checkout, will it affect my raise at the end of the year?
/s
Only thing raising at the end of the year will be the prices ringing up at that self checkout.
Unless I’m at a store in which I paid for a membership, like Sam’s or Costco, I always just walk on by. If they ask me to see my receipt or what I bought, I just tell them, “No thanks, I’m fine” and continue leaving. I’ve had one occasion where the employee tried to physically stop me. I spoke with the manager, explained my privacy rights, threatened to call the police for them holding me without justification, and they let me leave.
Once you buy the products, they are your property. Think of this as them asking to go through your wallet or purse just because they are curious. It’s none of their business what I choose to spend my money on.
It’s a different story if it’s a membership store because most of those memberships have contracts with clauses about inspecting purchases.
A little firmness is all that’s needed
“Once you buy the products, they’re your property.”
Meanwhile, videogame publishers, online storefronts, car manufacturers…:
Here in Sweden any bag checking is after scanning but before payment, and after that you just scan the bar code on the receipt (which are not linked to items purchased) to leave the doors
You need to scan a receipt to exit the store? What if I chose not to buy anything, or the item I came in for was out of stock? Honestly that sounds way worse to me.
You leave via the customer service area if you didn’t buy anything. Doesn’t even take 3 seconds to walk to that area, say “I’m not buying anything”, and then be let out.
So you need to declare that you haven’t bought anything, you’re not just free to leave of your own accord? I still really don’t like that. Also I’m curious about the layout. In every box store I’ve been in the last like decade or so, Walmart for example, you couldn’t access the customer service desk without going though a cash or self checkout. The closest to an exception is Home Depot which has the customer service desk before the one way gates that let you into the store proper.
Shops have a right for securities against shoplifters.
Pretty much every customer service area is either near the entrance or right next to the self service area. But in most cases it’s near the entrance and triples as a kiosk and a postal/package pickup spot.
I guess I just feel there should be a presumption of innocence. The layouts that have become commonplace anywhere I’m familiar with seem to lack that. They should have to prove I am stealing, I shouldn’t have to prove I’m not, right?
Nobody is holding you hostage. Nobody is assuming you’re stealing. It’s as simple as “I’d like to go out” “OK”. You don’t have to be searched, or answer 10 questions correctly. You’re not putting any effort into proving something. Just prevents someone from walking out with a bunch of full shopping bags.
be let out
Fuck that. That sounds like they’d have any right to not let me out.
Of you’re shoplifting they’d have the right to log let you out. Security will detain you until police arrive. So yeah, you’re right. :)
Same here in Denmark, except there’s hardly any item checking. The only times I’ve needed to get items checked was when I brought goods I bought elsewhere (which was easily mitigated by just showing the dude I had a receipt from the other store) or when buying alcohol.
Haven’t been to Costco in years but it always aggravated the hell out of me that you’d have to wait in line to check out and then wait in line again to check the receipt to leave.
Okay so here is the thing between the two.
CostCo you are a member and have to agree to terms. In those terms there is an agreement to show your receipt on exit. (Almost all the time its a numbers game. It says 9 on the receipt, there are 9 items in the cart)
Walmart has no such agreement, this actually falls into a unwarranted search. I am not a lawyer but just giving you the info about why it happens at CostCo.
Yeah, I know. We all know. I also don’t give a fuck. It is absurd security theater.
It’s supposed to be so that they can check that you have everything you paid for.
I’ve had this happen to me once at a club warehouse; I was supposed to have two cases of something but only had one. Had there been no receipt checker I would have had half of what I was supposed to have.
Granted, I still hate them at WalMart.
We know some people are dumb! That’s their own personal struggle.
What about the rest of us?
Everybody makes a mistake at some point.
You may have won this round, Walmart is removing the self check out lanes in a lot of their stores.
Yeah, the one near me has severely limited when it’s open and how many checkouts are available and it sucks badly. Checking out takes two to three times longer now. And you still have to show your receipt regardless, which has always been the case!
This is annoying, where I am, I can usually just smile and walk past them. They want to check my receipt, but I don’t
What’s become especially irritating is that so many items are locked behind glass. Want some knee pads so your kid can go skateboarding? Please get an associate. Want a new inner tube to get a bike up and running? Please page someone for help. Then, when you finally get the inner tube, the guy has to physically walk it to the self checkout area, put it into a cabinet and then I have to walk around to the front of the self checkout, ask the girl there to go get it and then I ring it up myself? What the hell is going on with inner tubes!?
Home Depot is really bad about this, and it’s one of the few times I’m actually on the store’s side. Went to buy a drill and driver set a few months ago, and had to get an associate to unlock the cage, cool, annoying but they actually had someone working nearby. Went to take it from him, and he pulled back and goes, “Are you finished shopping? If not, I can either leave it with the cashier at the registers, or you’ll have to come back and get me so I can walk it to the register for you.”
Apparently power tool theft has gotten so bad, new HD stores are being designed so there’s only one entry/exit into and out of the tool section. And it sucks, because I’ve been there and had employees tell me a guy just walked out with 15 different power tools, without paying, and bolted in their car before police could arrive.
I used to work at a grocery store. We weren’t allowed to chase shoplifters out of the store because someone got shot one time at one of the many stores in the chain.
I also worked as a to-go person packaging and delivering to-go orders at a popular restaurant chain. Anyone bringing food to cars had to wear a necklace under their shirt with a panic button in case we got kidnapped. It would call the police immediately.
A few people are assholes, and they ruin it for all the decent people.
Hmmm, I’m not sure this really makes sense. It doesn’t feel too far off from having your tickets checked on public transportation to me, and I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t feel accused of anything when they check my ticket. I also don’t feel accused of anything when I gotta show the receipt.
At least in the USA it is illegal for stores to have a mandatory receipt (club membership stores are probably fine due to waving some rights due to the membership contract).
Stores are more than welcome to ask to see your receipt but they cannot require you to show a receipt. Doing so is preventing you from leaving the store, which is interestingly enough is actually illegal detention. Stores do not have the power to detain you, you are always free to leave. Stores that have any kind of store security have to be really careful about this. If they find somebody shoplifting they cannot detain them they can only request them to stay. Security guards will often use very carefully worded language that implies you have to say, but they can never actually prevent you from leaving.
A store is more than welcome to call the police and report a crime if you are still there when the police show up the police have the lawful power to detain you. Up until that point and you have every right to walk out of the store regardless if you shoplifted or not. If a store were to physically detain you prevent you from leaving it could result in illegal detention and kidnapping charges.
As for having tickets checked on public transit, that is completely different. If you are trying to get on public transit and are prevented because you do not have a ticket. The person preventing you from doing it is preventing you from entering not leaving. For public transit it just does random checks for tickets. The person doing the checks as often and not is actually a police officer. They may have limited jurisdiction, but if they are writing tickets and/or detaining people then they have to be a police officer. Otherwise the only thing they can do is tell you to leave at the next stop. Which if you refuse to comply with, you would then be trespassing and they would need to call a police officer to physically remove you and probably charge you.
Ok so at least there, the bus fare checker is some degree of law enforcement. That sounds much more like an obligation and much more of a restrictive process than getting a receipt checked at the supermarket. Probably still pretty tough to walk away without showing it if they have a barrier.
I’m absolutely amused by the attitude in the post that not only is self checkout somehow above the OP as a cashier job, but the fact that they are asked to show a receipt is in a way offensive to them, an accusation of theft. Now I understand, depending on their nationality, this isn’t even something they have to submit to.
Personally I read it more as a frustration about self-checkout opposed to being above it. I know I personally find self-checkout frustrating because it frequently forces you to stop and call for an attendant for no reason and I rarely find that the attendant is readily available. Plus a lot of stores like Walmart do not really have an option for a cashier. They tend to only have one station open and I’ve been in a few stores where there were no cashiers, self-checkout was the only option. Increasing the frustration of people who would prefer to have a cashier.
In my opinion the store is forcing you to do unpaid labor in order to buy something from them. I’m already purchasing a thing from them and they can’t be bothered to provide me with a way to make my purchase that is not glitchy. That is what I find frustrating. Especially knowing that this cost saving measure is going to benefit the c-suite much more than the worker. All in all it feels very dystopian to me.
As for the actual receipt check. It is just another step preventing you from making a smooth transaction. To me it is pretty blatantly accusatory and doesn’t seem like the best system just the cheapest. I’m kind of working under the assumption that you’re not from the USA. In the United States there is a strong culture of the customer always being right and an expectation of service from a store. To me self-checkout and receipt checks fall contrary to that. Like me most Americans would find this accusative. This kind of goes against our culture. Generally we feel that honesty should be assumed unless proven otherwise (I don’t know if this is actually reasonable but it is the way it is). Receipt checks assume the opposite which is why they tend to feel offensive.
Lastly it’s also worth noting that Americans tend to be distrustful of authority. This in part comes from a strong sense of individuality. So whether this is governmental authority or corporate authority. In general Americans are initially a little suspicious of why you’re being asked to comply with something (again I don’t know if it’s a good or bad thing that’s the way it is).
They do refer to self checkouts in that way in the post though, and it’s not a sentiment I haven’t seen before, which makes me think I’m not off base.
In my opinion the store is forcing you to do unpaid labor in order to buy something from them.
Personally, I don’t feel that way. The self checkout is, IMO, leaps and bounds the better option. Faster, more private, doesn’t rush me, etc. The only downside is that a teenager needs to approve me buying beer. I don’t know how these machines are in the US but at least here I never have an issue. They don’t talk to me to tell me stuff, I scan, the price shows up, there’s a message on the screen to put the item down, I do it, rinse and repeat. As far as I’m concerned they’re giving me exactly what I want.
In the United States there is a strong culture of the customer always being right
I would be surprised if that wasn’t a large part of why self checkouts are popular. Yes, saving cost is a thing that happens because of this, and I’m sure that helps them make the change. However, there have always been people who want to get their stuff fast and efficient and move on. Self service isn’t new, in fact automats were a thing like 100 years ago. Vending machines have kind of lost appeal but there was a time when they were really popular. People complain that waiters bother them, and some prefer fast food type places where you order at a counter, and seat yourself. Drive thrus are huge, and now fully automated, fully self service restaurants are starting to show up again.
And keep in mind that a meal can very much be a social activity (which is why traditional restaurants aren’t going anywhere) and still many people would rather make it impersonal. A supermarket is a chore to a lot of people, including me. It falls in the same category as self service gas stations and laundromats. I don’t need another person to be there. In fact I’m here to get my uglies, my funsies, and my needies, and I’d rather not make eye contact with someone while they’re scanning my lube, scented candles, and ingredients for carbonara.
As for the second half of the comment, I don’t really know how to respond to it without coming across at least a little bit like an asshole so at least keep in mind that I don’t mean it like a personal attack. It sounds like what you’re saying is that americans have a chip on their shoulder and a self entitlement issue. I understand wanting staff to not be unpleasant, but it’s like americans expect a degree of overly deferential treatment, and it’s not enough that they get it when staff is there, but they expect there to be staff to treat them this way when all that’s happening is a simple transaction. I have money, they have stuff. Trade and leave.
I get it though; if you’re getting something forever, you expect that it’s part of the deal, even though the deal is objectively just the transaction. Now they took that away, and even though you get speed and (at least apparent) privacy, you still want what you got before.
The US isn’t alone in distrusting authority. In eastern europe, corruption is a matter of course. You bob and weave, adapt, and get as good as you can. When I’m there and the employee checks my receipt, my thought is “fair enough, I’m sure otherwise people would steal”. It’s not an attack on me. They’re not doing it because of me. It’s not about me. But they don’t know me. What they do know is that people are corrupt and will do bad shit, and you have to play defense. Everyone is bobbing and weaving, and getting the best they can.
I wonder how close I am to the character limit.
I had to think about this for a bit
So as an American reading something that I think we can safely assume was written by an American. I genuinely don’t think her intent was to be disrespectful or dismissive of the job of a cashier. Though I can see how it could be read in that way. Her tone is definitely a little arrogant, but I really don’t think it was intended to be dismissive of the worker.
I can tell you that her opinion of doing unpaid labor would not be uncommon among Americans. Of course self-service in other forms have been around for a while, but this just feels different. I don’t know if I can give you a clear answer why but I can tell you it does to me and it does to people I know. I would guess it has something to do with the degradation of service.
Honestly automats are not really a thing in the USA(I had to look them up). I have never been in one and honestly never seen one. I have heard of them I just didn’t know they were called automats. There has been a recent move sort of towards these where some fast food places have order terminals that you can use. But there’s always an option to order from a person and there has been some pushback by the general public on this. I would just say in general Americans want to have that interaction with a person and not a machine. As for other types of self checkout like ATMs or vending machines. For us they have always been an additional service instead of replacement.
Don’t worry you don’t sound like an asshole. I am not going to deny the fact that my countrymen do have a problem with arrogance. And I would guess this lady has a problem with arrogance. Though there’s definitely more to it than just arrogance. Based on the couple times I’ve been to Europe (I feel lucky to have had the chance) I can tell you that commercial interactions are much more curt in the European countries I’ve been to than in the US. There is definitely a learning curve on my first trip on how to handle such interactions. Before I realized there was no intention of rudeness. So I’d say this has a lot more to do with cultural differences and style of service opposed to American assholerly.
Also think a little of this has to do with how Americans and Europeans do shopping. It seems to be a much more common thing in Europe to just do a day or two of shopping. So you have a small number of items that could fit in one or maybe two bags. This is obviously convenient if you’re using exclusively public transportation and as far as I can tell it is much more common for Europeans to have local small markets within easy walking distance. Feel free to correct me on these points if I have it wrong for your area.
Americans are much more likely to do shopping for a week or two sometimes longer. Obviously our public transit and walking is a joke so we all have to have cars. This makes it easier to do a large amount of shopping at once. Additionally we tend to live a little further away from where are shopping is and the small market is not really a thing. We almost exclusively have large markets/super stores. All this all this makes it much more likely to shop more infrequently.
And bring this up because Americans will buy a greater quantity of items at one time, which makes self checkout difficult. I can definitely agree with the convenience of only having a few items doing a quick self check out and getting out of the store. When I am doing a full shopping trip it’s much different. It can easily be 40 or 50 items requiring five or six bags and I just shop for one. For larger families they could easily make it 100+ items. In my experience self-checkout stations just don’t work well for that style shopping. I can tell you when I have a large number of items it is definitely faster to use a checker than self-checkout.
As for the not trusting authority thing. I think it comes from a different place then post Soviet block countries. At least in theory there’s a belief in equal footing for everybody in the US. Additionally we never experienced any kind of cultural pressure to conform like was expected in Soviet block countries. From day one America’s always been about everybody starting out on the same level and each getting to individually choose how to move forward. Obviously that’s not really true but it is part of our culture. So our mistrust comes more from a threat to our individualism. Than knowledge that the system is rigged. Which is more of my understanding of post-soviet block countries. My understanding is that both under communism and then in the turmoil afterwards that corruption has always been endemic. so authority couldn’t be trusted because they were inherently untrustworthy people. In general Americans don’t have to worry about overt corruption especially on the small scale. We’ve never had situations where you have to pay off police officers or getting arrested on purely false charges. We have never had a secret police who can disappear you and so on. And yes obviously that is unfortunately less true if you’re a non-white American. Though I can guarantee you whoever wrote that is white and probably has a poor understanding of ongoing racial discrimination. Unfortunately I have yet to travel to Eastern Europe, it is on the list. So feel free to take what I say about it lightly or correct me if I’m wrong.
I generally don’t think you’re wrong on any one of your points. I think fundamentally this is all just cultural differences not making either position good or bad just different. And on that note due to the size of America there is a good bit of variation on how we interpret our culture. So it would not be unexpected to get a somewhat different answer from somebody who lives in a different part of America than I do. Though I would expect some of the broader points to stay fairly consistent it would be more about response to and interpretation of those broader points.
I don’t know I’ve never have hit the word limit and clearly I’ve written some very long posts.
If you have any questions or want more detail on anything feel free to ask. I really tried to keep this post short as much as I failed. So there’s more I could say. Additionally feel free to give me more detail about how this doesn’t apply to your culture I would love to know more.
Oh and just in case it isn’t clear I’m under no delusion that America is better or anything like that. There are a lot of things I really like about my country at the same time there’s a lot of things that are really shit.
Thank you for the detailed response, it was an interesting read! I’ll pick out a couple of things directly, but it definitely helped me understand some things.
I really don’t think it was intended to be dismissive of the worker.
I may have misspoken but it’s not to be dismissive of the worker, but to be dismissive of the job itself. I have a bachelor’s but I’d do the job if I needed to, I just prefer to work in my field because I like the activity. No (ordinary) job is beneath me, though naturally I have my preferences.
Honestly automats are not really a thing in the USA
Nope, they were a thing in the USA like 100 years ago. It was just the earliest example I had off the top of my head of self service in the US.
more common thing in Europe to just do a day or two of shopping. So you have a small number of items that could fit in one or maybe two bags.
more common for Europeans to have local small markets within easy walking distance. Feel free to correct me on these points if I have it wrong for your area.
Americans are much more likely to do shopping for a week or two sometimes longer
All this all this makes it much more likely to shop more infrequently.
This was the big a-ha moment for me. I have 5 small supermarkets, 3 kiosks, and a bunch of other bakeries and cafes near me. I do buy for one week at a time but I often pop in to get something I’m craving or something I forgot. I’m one person so 1 week of shopping is like 2 bags and a backpack. People here do shop for short-term groceries. If you’re making a big trip once a week, it’s probably much more of a planned “event”. I’m not saying it’s in the same category as going out, but I imagine it can be a bit of a family trip. Everyone goes out, walks around a large store for probably an hour or more together, and grabs a whole load of stuff. I can imagine you might want to feel welcomed. We do have huge shops like that in Europe as well, though I guess the relationship between the people and the “hypermarket” is different. In Romania some people will just… raise chickens. Grow vegetables. I have a feeling that isn’t really a thing in US suburbs. Suburbs in general are much less of a thing, and are sometimes in the extremes of just being a city with houses and shops, or effectively a fancy village.
My understanding is that both under communism and then in the turmoil afterwards that corruption has always been endemic.
Correct.
We’ve never had situations where you have to pay off police officers or getting arrested on purely false charges.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe situations like these are reported on your news, though like you said it does appear to usually be racially motivated.
Unfortunately I have yet to travel to Eastern Europe, it is on the list.
I encourage you to try as many different and strange foods as you can, and see as much nature and history as you can. I don’t like eastern European cities - once you’ve seen one, you’ve seen most of them. An old center that looks neat (and shows up in every tourism marketing image) which still has visible damage from WW2, commie blocks everywhere else, and lots of gray speckled with banner ads.
And on that note due to the size of America there is a good bit of variation on how we interpret our culture.
Of course, I assumed as much. Probably the neighbor across the street could have a different view.
I get a vibe from how you and other americans talk about authority, that there is an idea of otherness - that they are not you, or not like you. In my mind, it is people who are shit, and that is the reason things are bad. The government, the police, the corporations, hospitals, schools, mechanics, drivers, street sweepers and garbage disposal staff, it’s people all the way up and down. It might not be one person, maybe not you or me, but it’s like… if you have an entity that is corrupt and you take the people out of it and you replace them with a random set of other people, the corruption doesn’t go away. Or maybe it goes away for some time, and slowly creeps in.
And corruption is insidious in many ways. You get a government job, and you happen to know a friend who can fill another position and you recommend them and they get hired. One of you is promoted, and you’re friends, so there’s going to be some preferential treatment. Boom, simple corruption in a few steps. Child’s play. But when people are involved with a thriving organization for decades, and they accumulate 20, 30 years of things like this, it becomes hard to break them apart. They’ll make choices and do things that are good for them, of course. And all this from just basic human friendship and reciprocity. A hundred thousand small choices that individually seem innocuous, accumulate into a monster over time.
To me, a supermarket chain company is not an authority. It’s like a starling murmuration, selfishly waning and waxing with the flow, trying to do things that are good for it. Why does the employee have to check receipts? Probably because people are stealing. Authority to me is something that can affect me without recourse. A cop can order me to identify myself - the police have authority. A supermarket can’t tell me to do anything. I can choose another supermarket. If that’s the only supermarket you have access to, that’s when that supermarket is an authority. That’s the only way you can get what you need, so the supermarket can dictate how you do it. Again, I have 5 supermarkets in a 1km radius, so maybe I’m privileged in this.
Could also be that your companies are legally allowed to ‘lobby’ (read: bribe) politicians, giving companies authority by proxy.
Frys used to check reciepts after you payed a cashier. Fuckin dog an pony show.
A bunch of stores in my area do that now.
But it’s really security theater.
The security guards grab the receipt, Mark it, and move on. Well, that’s what happens when my wife is around. Usually 2-3 seconds.
When I’m alone (because I’m brown), they check extra thoroughly and I’m being checked for about twice as long. Not enough to be aggravating, but enough notice the BS.
But then again, my stoner cousin is a store security guard and now he has a job and he really really doesn’t give a shit about his role.
Remember folks at least in the USA, a store cannot prevent you from leaving. Doing so is illegal detention and potentially kidnapping. Does not matter if you’ve committed a crime or not. They can always request that you stay and request to see a receipt but you are under no obligation to comply with that request. Only law enforcement officers have the power to detain somebody. If you were ever in a store and you want to leave regardless of the reason you have every right to walk out the door. If the store feels like you’ve done something illegal, they can call the police and let them investigate. If you are still there when the police show up then you can be detained.
So if you ever want to leave a store, just walk out and leave regardless of what the store employees are saying to you. If they ever try to physically prevent you from leaving the store what they are doing is illegal. Make sure that you inform the police that that has happened. And then prepared to win a civil lawsuit as it is likely as not the police will choose not to criminally charge the store unless they’ve done something egregious like seriously injured you.
Oh and also be careful how much physical force you use leaving. It is generally acceptable to use the minimum force necessary to get yourself to a safe location, but no more than that. So you’re more than welcome to twist out of somebody’s grip that is grabbing on to you or push them to get past them. But hitting them on the face, seriously injuring them, kicking him when they’re down, etc is not acceptable. Your force has to be proportional and it must end as soon as you’re no longer prevented from leaving the store.
Obviously your mileage may vary a little depending on jurisdiction and it is likely that membership stores have greater latitude to request receipt checks, As you may have waived some rights by signing that contract.
(Not a lawyer)
Sure, but the flip side is they can refuse your business in the future. I personally haven’t heard of it happening, but it legally could.
